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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] Shadowyards Reconstruction Authority 0.6.4b  (Read 421799 times)
Bastion.Systems
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« Reply #1170 on: January 09, 2018, 09:33:38 AM »

Aww Yiss, a new phase ship!
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MShadowy
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« Reply #1171 on: January 13, 2018, 07:21:10 AM »

Just a quick bugfix release, Shadowyards 0.6.4a is ready for download!


0.6.4a Changelog

  • Did a balance pass on the small Polarizer
    • AoE radius reduced to 25 (from 75), EMP amount reduced to 400 (from 500), range reduced to 500 (from 700)
  • Fixed a CTD bug that occurs when fighting Templars with the Polarizers
  • Rewrote the Polarizer descriptions to make their AoE nature more clear
  • Added the misisng Shikome ships system description

Edit: A showstopper CTD slipped past me; the release has been reuploaded with this fixed. If you've downloaded the mod before this edit you should probably download it again.

Edit Again: I guess there may be some weird edge case null error that can happen against the Templar IBB; I don't have time to fix it now so if it comes up you'll have to disable the plugins in /data/config/settings.json; the plugins to disable would be "SmallEMPFlak" and "HeavyEMPFlak"
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 08:11:43 AM by MShadowy » Logged
ANGRYABOUTELVES
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« Reply #1172 on: January 15, 2018, 01:22:37 PM »

I love the new Polarizer so much that I use it for PD on every single ship with small energy slots. I put it on Shadowyards ships, DME ships, vanilla ships, Diable ships, basically everything that can mount it. I love it mainly because it's an AoE PD weapon in a small energy slot, but also because it role-compresses EMP assault and PD capabilities. And that is also why I think it's still very overpowered post-nerf. No other weapon in the game does either of these, and the Polarizer does both.

One of low-tech's major strengths is their powerful AoE PD weapons. The medium ballistic Flak and Dual Flak are some of the most powerful PD weapons in the vanilla game, second only to the Devastator, and remain among the best PD weaponry even in a heavily modded game. They tear through missiles and lightly protected fighters alike, offering low-tech ships a way to combat missile and fighter spam. High-tech PD is, in contrast, more easily overwhelmed by numbers but better able to remove relatively hard targets. Burst PD's titular burst punches through armor surprisingly well, being able to quickly defeat fighter-grade and even frigate-grade(!) armor, as well as being able to easily remove high-HP missiles such as Reapers.

As a thought experiment, imagine switching the characteristics of high-tech(energy) and low-tech(ballistic) PD. Low-tech would become very vulnerable to being worn down by missile and fighter spam, as they cannot depend on their low-efficiency low-angle shields and armor does not regenerate. An Onslaught that isn't wrapped in Dual Flak is just bait for Claws, Daggers, Harpoons and Reapers. High-tech, on the other hand, would have a dual-layered defense; not only are their wide-angle high-efficiency shields able to absorb lots of HE missiles from many angles, they would boast the ability to shoot down waves of missiles before they ever touch the shields. High-tech flux stats can also more easily accommodate the increased constant flux generation of Flak-style PD, and would not suffer from the soft-flux locking that can occur when heavily pressuring low-tech PD. Fighters that used to be able to pressure high-tech ships through numbers and PD-distractions, like the Broadsword or Talon, are easily shot down by Flak-style PD and thus no longer threaten high-tech ships.

The latter half of this thought experiment is what I have found the Polarizer to do. It takes one of low-tech's important strengths, and allows high-tech to use it to cover one of high-tech's important weaknesses. The concept itself is not unsalvageably unbalanced, but the Polarizer's numbers would have to be poor in order to cover for that very powerful conceptual strength. The Polarizer's numbers are not poor; in fact, they're exceedingly high for a small energy PD weapon. On top of that, the Polarizer also functions very well as an EMP assault weapon.

The Polarizer fires 80 times a minute, and deals 50 Energy and 400 EMP. This is a total of 533.33 EMP DPS and 66.66 Energy DPS. IIRC the amount of EMP damage you need to neuter a missile is the same as it's HP, so a Polarizer is slightly better than a Vulcan for single-target missile removal. Let me repeat that: the Polarizer, a small energy weapon, is slightly better than the Vulcan, the gold standard for small ballistic PD, for single target missile removal. The Polarizer also has significantly more range than the Vulcan, as well as dealing AoE damage.

The Dual Flak deals 450 Frag DPS at 150 damage a shot, dealing full damage within a 15 radius AoE and reduced damage out to a 30 range AoE. The Polarizer deals 533 EMP DPS at 400 damage a shot and has a 25 AoE radius, dealing full damage with 18 radius. That's almost the same. The Polarizer also has 100 more range than the Dual Flak. The Polarizer is about as powerful a PD weapon as the Dual Flak, perhaps more powerful; the Dual Flak is a medium ballistic weapon that costs 12 OP and uses 152 flux/second, the Polarizer is a small energy weapon that costs 6 OP and uses 90 flux/second.

The single downside is that the Polarizer is prone to overkill. It will keep firing at a missile that is EMP'd out until the missile is destroyed by the energy damage. The weapon's AoE and large per-shot damage makes this less of a downside than you'd think; unless missiles are incoming from multiple angles at the same time, a single Polarizer will generally be able to get them all thanks to the AoE.

For comparison, the vanilla standard for small energy PD is around 75 single-target DPS with varying levels of flux efficiency; PD lasers deal 75 DPS, LRPD deals 50 DPS but has much better range, Burst PD deals 214 burst DPS but 64 sustained DPS in chunks of 128 per-shot damage. This very low DPS compared to ballistic PD is because high-tech shields are so much more efficient than low-tech shields; high-tech doesn't need to stop nearly as many missiles with PD because the shields can easily take the hit.

Dealing with fighters, however, is where the Polarizer really begins to shine. Being a mostly EMP weapon, it does not quickly destroy fighters. It does flame out their engines and send them spinning, rendered completely harmless. A flamed out fighter is effectively dead; either it'll be destroyed by shots it can no longer dodge, or it'll just be completely useless until its engines get fixed. Most importantly, EMP damage does not care about armor or hull, only shields. All unshielded fighters, be they as bulky as a Warthog or as fragile as a Talon, are equally vulnerable to the Polarizer. Extremely bulky fighters can be EMP'd out for very long periods of time while the Polarizer works away at their hull; they're dead as soon as the first shot hits, but the refit time is effectively extended by as long as it takes the Polarizer's pitiful 50 DPS to actually destroy them.

On top of being an extremely good PD weapon, the Polarizer has enough range and EMP DPS to function as an EMP assault weapon. 533 DPS isn't the Ion Cannon's 800, but it's still quite good, and given that you can replace all your PD with it you're likely to have more Polarizers than you would Ion Cannons. The choice between 1 Ion Cannon + 1 Burst PD or 2 Polarizers isn't really that much of a choice.

What all this means in practice is that Polarizers go in every small energy turret on every ship. The stock pulse laser Wolf has 2 PD lasers and 1 Ion Cannon in the smalls, all those get replaced with Polarizers. Medusas and Auroras get wrapped in 5 Polarizers, one in every small turret. You can replace every single PD weapon and Ion Cannon on every single variant with a Polarizer and it'll immediately preform better. Why wouldn't you put them on everything? Try wrapping a Vardr in Polarizers. Between the shield and the dozen Dual Flak's worth of PD, missiles and fighters might as well not exist.

If the Polarizer is to remain as a PD weapon, it needs to lose most of its damage, range, or AoE. If it keeps the damage and the range, it can't have appreciable AoE because then it's a Dual Flak in a small slot. If it keeps the range and the AoE, it has to have anti-missile DPS closer to vanilla energy PD; so maybe 25 energy and 75 EMP per shot. If it keeps the AoE and the damage, it has to go down to about 250 range so it can't be used as an assault weapon outside of SO ships. Or, it could lose the PD aspect by default and require IPDAI to shoot at missiles; it'd still very much be worth using.
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Dark.Revenant
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« Reply #1173 on: January 15, 2018, 02:28:08 PM »

I think it can be balanced out by having a short charge-up and long cooldown.  Like 20 RPM.
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Delta7
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« Reply #1174 on: January 15, 2018, 08:44:02 PM »

A general DPM nerf, both to fire rate and damage output would help to balance this weapon while still retaining it's new intended role as a hybrid EMP assault and point defense weapon.
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« Reply #1175 on: January 20, 2018, 10:52:43 AM »

40351575 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at org.lwjgl.util.vector.Vector2f.sub(Vector2f.java:210)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.systems.EmpArcEntity.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.spawnEmpArc(Unknown Source)
   at data.scripts.plugins.MS_EMPFlakSmall.flakEMPExplode(MS_EMPFlakSmall.java:217)
   at data.scripts.plugins.MS_EMPFlakSmall.advance(MS_EMPFlakSmall.java:372)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.ooOO.K$Oo.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.A.new.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

I think "MS_EMPFlakSmall" it is the gun "Polarizer" from yours mod. In fight against "Knight Templars" after her shots a game has crash.
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AxleMC131
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« Reply #1176 on: January 20, 2018, 11:52:39 AM »

@DrakonST it's a known bug with the new Polarizer scripting, when used against (or with?) the Knights Templar.

... But I thought Shadow fixed that in the latest patch?  Huh Make sure you're using the latest version of the mod (0.6.4a)
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« Reply #1177 on: January 20, 2018, 11:58:49 AM »

@DrakonST it's a known bug with the new Polarizer scripting, when used against (or with?) the Knights Templar.

... But I thought Shadow fixed that in the latest patch?  Huh Make sure you're using the latest version of the mod (0.6.4a)
I don't trust. The bug is alive. He is alive! Somebody please, kill him! I have lost because of it more than 5 hours of a game!  Tongue

Ah... I didn't see updating about plugins...
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 12:03:06 PM by DrakonST » Logged

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MShadowy
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« Reply #1178 on: January 20, 2018, 11:07:04 PM »

Well, the original bug was resolved, only for a new and more sinister bug to replace it. This has probably been resolved by now in the source; there appears to have been some kind of weird interaction between the EMP flak bursting and the Priwen Burst Shield going off that caused the emp lightning part of the script to aim at null Vector2fs. I put in a null check that should prevent it from occurring in the future.

Unfortunately I'm completely exhausted so it'll have to be posted in the morning.
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MShadowy
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« Reply #1179 on: January 21, 2018, 08:46:03 AM »

Alright, the bugs are finally squashed so Shadowyards 0.6.4b is ready to download.


0.6.4b Changelog

  • Fire rate of both Polarizers reduced to 30 shots/minute
  • Small Polarizer AoE increased to 30 (from 25)
  • Fixed another bug with the Polarizers that could cause a ctd when fighting Templars
  • Added the Lockdown HMG (weapon courtesy of Soren)
    • A collaboration between the League and the SRA, the lockdown is a ballistic mounted emp machine gun

Cheers!

Edit: Okay, had to do a version update to fix a messed up variant (I accidentally used the wrong Thunder wing for the Morningstar L Overload); you may want to redownload it if you got it before this edit and don't have Arsenal Expansion active.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 09:36:22 AM by MShadowy » Logged
ValkyriaL
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« Reply #1180 on: January 22, 2018, 05:25:59 PM »

Looking good! Smiley
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Blothorn
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« Reply #1181 on: February 12, 2018, 09:37:55 PM »

Another balance nitpick: the Sargasso is essentially a better, cheaper Condor--both have a maintenance cost of 8, but the Sargasso has a deployment cost of 8 rather than 10, and 1.45 fuel use rather than 2. Meanwhile, I think the Sargasso is far more dangerous: 80 OP vs. 45 is huge for fitting expensive drones and hull mods, and 70 vs. 45 top speed gives the Sargasso much greater tactical flexibility. The Sargasso is substantially more fragile, but I find that rarely matters for a carrier--neither is really suited for close engagement, and I think the Sargasso's superior speed and shield more than compensate.

I do not think the ship itself is OP (although 80 OP is a lot for a fast carrier)--I think it is no better than the Drover, and worse in several respects. However, its cost of 8 should put it in the bottom-tier of destroyers, and I think its capabilities put it near the top. I would argue for either bumping its costs up to ~11, severely reducing its capabilities (if leaving both fighter bays untouched, something like dropping it down to 40-50 OP and downgrading the medium mount), or some compromise between the two.
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Soren
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« Reply #1182 on: February 13, 2018, 07:56:26 AM »

I actually agree with the new guy here: Sargassos are amazing, and should be balanced closer to the Drover than the Condor. Given how much fun the current version is, bumping costs up to something more like the Drover is probably the easiest fix.
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« Reply #1183 on: February 17, 2018, 05:07:21 PM »

is the Enlil(L) you can start with using randomized starting ships in nexerelin meant to have a railgun on one of its synergy mounts? dunno if that's actually something controlled by this mod but it seemed a little odd when i first saw it Tongue
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