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Author Topic: Phase missiles  (Read 5780 times)

Gabrybbo

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Phase missiles
« on: July 14, 2012, 04:54:56 AM »

Today I was derping around with Sins of a Solar Empire and I noticed that the Vasari use "phase missiles" which can phase to phase space before colliding with the shields and dephase (which is a real word, of course) into the shield, hitting directly the ship.
As we are about to see phase technology in Starfarer, wouldn't it be cool to see such weapon in our game?

How would it work?
1. you launch the missile
2. it goes near the targeted ship
3. it enters phase space
4. it moves to the ship bypassing the shields
5. it dephases
6. BOOM!
7. profit!

My thoughts about it:
They use a technology similar to phase ships which allows a small object to enter phase space for a few seconds before dephasing and requires less energy and, more importantly, less credits to build (meaning it can be used on missiles). BUT, as this technology is "weaker" than the one used on phase ships, only a small amount of matter can be phased, so it is an atropos-like torpedo, able to cripple cruisers and capitals but more vulnerable to point defense weapons due to its low speed (as it has a powerful warhead but a smaller engine).

In the moment when the missile phases to attack, it estimates the time needed to reach the target's current position and begins a countdown from that time. Passed that time OR 5-10 seconds (remember what I said about the technology) it dephases and behaves like a normal missile, exploding when touched.

Also it won't track the target while phased, so it's possible to evade it completely or just move enough to make it dephase out of your ship.

Obviously, it should be balanced not to allow people just to fire 10 of these missiles every five seconds. Maybe using a medium-sized launcher with 2 missiles (which have a low range, like 1200-1500) and a large-sized launcher with 6 missiles, maybe each one brought to the target via a MIRV, allowing a longer range and making it a useful fire support weapon against shielded targets.

I don't have any idea how hard implementing this can be, it looks simple but it could be a coding nightmare, so I'll obviously let Alex decide.  ;D

What do you guys think?  :D
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Xareh

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2012, 05:03:06 AM »

That actually sound fairly interesting.

It would need to be a big missile to fit the phase coil though.
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Starlight

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2012, 05:14:46 AM »

Kind of reminds me of the 'Skipper' anti-capital ship missiles from Wing Commander 3, which kept cloaking and decloaking as you tried to intercept them in your fighter.  That was tricky.

I think in the Starfarer universe, it would have to be a Large, single-shot missile with a relatively reduced speed and payload to account for the bulk and power requirements of phase cloaking technology. 
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Faiter119

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2012, 06:13:21 AM »

And then people would complain and stuff about it when it constantly happened to them and they cant do anything about it...

EDIT: Ops bad word. Sorry
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 10:52:39 AM by Faiter119 »
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BillyRueben

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2012, 10:03:43 AM »

No thanks.

This idea is counter to two things I love about Starfarer:
1. When the shields are up, nothing gets through until they are lowered.
2. When using missiles, you have to time them to dodge shielding and PD.
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Hyph_K31

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2012, 10:18:09 AM »

Another reason why not:

They would need to be big enough to carry a phase coil, that would be expensive, and it would waste a phase coil, which i would assume are hard to come by. that, and most of the missile would probably be phase coil, leaving little room for a payload and still be a reasonable size.
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Gabrybbo

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2012, 11:37:37 AM »

@Hyph: Not necessarily, maybe the phase coils we see on a ship are made specifically to be used multiple times with great reliability and precision. I assumed that is conceivable the presence of a system different from the one used on phase ships but capable of the same things on a smaller scale. Such system would be useless on big ships as they are too big for it.
To make an example of what i am saying:
There are (irl) many types of engines capable of pushing a car, but an electric one is very different from an internal combustion engine. Both do the same thing, but in different ways.
So, there could be another way to phase objects which doesn't use phase coils but is only usable on small things.  :)


No thanks.

This idea is counter to two things I love about Starfarer:
1. When the shields are up, nothing gets through until they are lowered.
2. When using missiles, you have to time them to dodge shielding and PD.

1. Yeah, you are right. In fact my suggestion could ruin the feeling of safety everyone has when looks at his Aurora with her shield completely raised. I don't know, maybe would be nice to give a high-tech heavy-shielded-ship pilot something to fear, just like a Dominator pilot fears a Dagger wing pointing at its rear.
2. Good point, but you still have to watch out for PD: a phase missile maybe can only phase when it's very close to its target's shield, meaning that a burst laser would just laugh at it and roflstomp the missile.


@Faiter:
Until they get used to it and understand how it should be used and how to react to it. It always works this way with new things in any game.  :)


Well, i don't know. I think that a mechanic like this would be nice to have in game, but could very well break some things that most players are used to... I just don't know how it will turn out.  :)
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Hyph_K31

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2012, 12:29:45 PM »

@Hyph: Not necessarily, maybe the phase coils we see on a ship are made specifically to be used multiple times
-snip-

A phase coil is still a phase coil, and as far as we know, phase technology is rare. I doubt you would want to fire a missile that would cost you more to shoot that what it'll get you in the long run.


This would be fine, if they knew how to produce a cheap phase coil. but the thing is you probably don't.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 06:42:29 AM by Hyph_K31 »
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Upgradecap

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2012, 01:21:29 PM »

Thing is, nobody knows how to produce an phase coil from scratch. They only know how to use the domains technology for themselves. :)
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Gabrybbo

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2012, 02:19:07 PM »

Thing is, nobody knows how to produce an phase coil from scratch. They only know how to use the domains technology for themselves. :)

Well, you (upgrade and hyph) have a good point. Maybe only with an autofactory and the right blueprint you would be able to produce them, but then: how the hell could you resupply your ships after combat without going to an autofactory? Probably you couldn't. :)

It would have been nice but yeah, phase missiles don't belong to Starfarer, at least for now. :)
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Reshy

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2012, 03:09:03 PM »

How about a Phase Torpedo, it'd be like a Reaper Torpedo but with half the damage and ignores shielding.
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Faiter119

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2012, 03:39:03 PM »

How about a Phase Torpedo, it'd be like a Reaper Torpedo but with half the damage and ignores shielding.

That is the worst idea i have ever seen.
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heskey30

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2012, 07:55:46 PM »

Oh come on, I am sure there are many worse. I like the idea of phase missiles/torpedoes, it is like a counter for shielding that some mad scientist put together in a hegemony bunker.

What if it does fragmentation damage? Then it would be fairly weak against a ship with decent armor still up, but devastating to a damaged tri-tachyon ship. They would have to be rare and expensive, sure, but I think nobody should have a feeling of safety in a war game.
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BonhommeCarnaval

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2012, 08:07:18 PM »

The idea sounds cool but would need to be balanced. Sure it'd be fun to launch phase missiles or phase torpedoes at someone but keep in mind they'll get launched at you too. Getting exploded can be fun if you learn from it but if you feel like you couldn't avoid it at all, it can be frustrating instead. :P

So the question is, how would it be balanced? What would counter it? We need to make sure most if not all ships have some form of defense against this. Looking at your version of it, it seems like long range high damage PD would become mandatory (or just very good armor). In other words, any high tech ship not fielding a few burst PDs would be screwed.

Also, is that meant to be a weapon used only by phase ships? Because that could be part of what makes it balanced.

So what counter/defensive measure do you suggest?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 08:31:17 PM by BonhommeCarnaval »
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Reshy

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Re: Phase missiles
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2012, 10:37:16 PM »

The idea sounds cool but would need to be balanced. Sure it'd be fun to launch phase missiles or phase torpedoes at someone but keep in mind they'll get launched at you too. Getting exploded can be fun if you learn from it but if you feel like you couldn't avoid it at all, it can be frustrating instead. :P

So the question is, how would it be balanced? What would counter it? We need to make sure most if not all ships have some form of defense against this. Looking at your version of it, it seems like long range high damage PD would become mandatory (or just very good armor). In other words, any high tech ship not fielding a few burst PDs would be screwed.

Also, is that meant to be a weapon used only by phase ships? Because that could be part of what makes it balanced.

So what counter/defensive measure do you suggest?


Let me ask you guys, how many reapers actually even hit your shields, nevermind your hull.
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