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Author Topic: Credit Value?  (Read 13201 times)

Faiter119

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Credit Value?
« on: July 13, 2012, 04:58:13 AM »

Does the "Credits" in the game have a approximate value? So we can imagine what the ships are actually worth. Is it a system kinda like in Shogun 2, where 1 "Credit" is the value of 1 mans food for a year?
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zakastra

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2012, 06:49:26 AM »

Does the "Credits" in the game have a approximate value? So we can imagine what the ships are actually worth. Is it a system kinda like in Shogun 2, where 1 "Credit" is the value of 1 mans food for a year?

Do we have one for the Dollar?
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Oh DRM, bane of the carrier captain...

sdmike1

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2012, 07:45:54 AM »

Alot, if all spaceships are going to be rare, that would make even a hound a great asset, therefore worth an incredible amount of money.  i am going to do a bit of testing be back in a bit
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 09:51:25 AM by sdmike1 »
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robokill

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2012, 10:18:30 AM »

hes saying does i credit get you 1,2or3 loafs of bread aproxamitly. lets the devs decide please
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zakastra

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2012, 12:02:52 PM »

hes saying does i credit get you 1,2or3 loafs of bread aproxamitly. lets the devs decide please

That rather depends whether you spend them in the forge-station orbiting the mineral rich barren wasteland of Infurnus V  or the Agro-domes of the lush and verdant Gaia VII
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 12:04:34 PM by zakastra »
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sdmike1

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2012, 01:25:30 PM »

It takes, 0.1 supply per day to feed 6 men supplys costing 6 credits each, 1 credit can fead a man for 10 days

Faiter119

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2012, 01:31:31 PM »

Clever... But isnt supplies parts and clothes and other stuff aswell?
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MasterGlink

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2012, 04:23:57 PM »

Clever... But isnt supplies parts and clothes and other stuff aswell?

Supplies encompass everything from food up to spare parts and materials to repair armor and hulls on a ship. Or even manufacture fighters and bombers to replace those lost in battle.
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StahnAileron

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2012, 04:35:05 PM »

Clever... But isnt supplies parts and clothes and other stuff aswell?

In-game, supplies can be precise whatever they need to be at a given moment for a given use. Splitting supplies into repairables, food, materials, etc. would be nothing but speculatiion at this point since the devs wanted to simplified the supply system.

It takes, 0.1 supply per day to feed 6 men supplys costing 6 credits each, 1 credit can fead a man for 10 days

1 Supply @ 6 Credits/each = 100 Crew fed for 1 day = 1 crew fed for 100 days for 6 credits. 100 days / 6 credits = 16 days & 16 hours per credit (exact). So 1-SFC (StarFarer Credit) is a little over 2 weeks of basic living expenses on food (and perhaps other consumables, like clothes, maybe). People can get rough numbers for basic cost of living in their localities and adjust it to match the equivalent of 2 weeks' worth of expenses. From there, you can then figure out the equivalent worth of vessels and weapons in real currencies. Say in the US, assuming $200 USD/month for food = 100 USD every 15 days or so (close enough to the 16.67 days) = 1-SFC = ~$100USD.

The above is rough as hell in the second half (conversion to realworld currencies), but should help answer the OrigPost.
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Catra

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2012, 04:39:55 PM »

It takes, 0.1 supply per day to feed 6 men supplys costing 6 credits each, 1 credit can fead a man for 10 days

then 1 scratch on the paint makes said man eat hundreds of % more than usual lol.

IMO: supplies needs to track which supplies are being used instead of it being used globally, it just feels hilariously off that my crew food consumption spikes because my ship is damaged, or that my ship is ( assumedly ) being repaired with MREs and underwear+military uniforms.
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heskey30

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2012, 04:51:00 PM »

Maybe they have a replicator like on star trek and the supplies fuel it. Personally, I don't want to have to worry about buying repair supplies, ammo, food, and spare fighters separately.

Oh, and if 1 credit = $100, that means that a paragon is around $18,000,000.

Bill gates would have a field day!

But maybe the gap between the rich and the not is not so massive in this universe. And I suppose he is the equivalent of the leader of tri-tachyon...
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Chancellor Meatsteak

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2012, 05:56:53 PM »

It takes, 0.1 supply per day to feed 6 men supplies costing 6 credits each, 1 credit can feed a man for 10 days

Actually supplies are worth 5 (you just buy at x1.2 price, likewise you sell at x0.8 ), and my 800 man crew need 8 supplies per day. One supply can supply a man for one hundred days, therefore one credit is 20 days of supply.

Now the USDA[1] lists the average food budget of a man aged 19-50 to be between $41.70-$82.80 per week. If the crew members eat as cheaply as possible the amount per twenty days is $119.14. However very little farming was completed in the sector before the collapse[2], if we assume is ten times as expensive as a result then cost of food will be $1191.43. For simplicity's sake I will round these numbers to $120 and $1200 respectively.

The United States use 12,914 kilowatt-hours per capita annually[3]. The estimated total system levelized cost of advanced nuclear power in in 2017 is $112.70 per megawatt-hour[4]. This means the average US citizen spends $1455.41 per year, or $79.75 per 20 days. If we assume that the increased energy costs of a spaceship is equally countered by increased efficiency of whatever futuristic reactors they use, then the energy costs of a crew member can be rounded to $80 per 20 days. If we assume the cost of power is ten times as much (say, for example, the grav generators needs a metric crapton of power, or the reactor runs on some expensive rare material) than the cost is $800.

The average consumer expenditures on apparel and services was $1700 in 2010[5]. Since it doesn't specify what these "and services" are I'm going to assume for the sake of this calculation it's just clothing and the money that would that would be spent on "and services" are factored into the costs of whatever special suits the crew use at work. Hence, clothing costs are $93.15 for 20 days. From the same article, average healthcare costs from 2010 is $3157, which for 20 days would be $172.99. Again from the same article "other" costs are $3379 for 2010, which will be to $185.15 for 20 days. Adding these costs together totals $451.29, which we will round to $450.

I will not include water prices, as I will assume it is recycled by on-ship systems (therefore factoring into electricity costs) or included alongside food. Water isn't exactly a scarce resource in space at any rate so I imagine the cost to be relatively negligible. Likewise I will not include gas costs as I assume that gas isn't used anymore. Entertainment costs will be either a personal expense or be included in electricity (which suddenly makes me wonder what video games they have in the future. Earthfarer, perhaps?).

Thus the value of one domain credit is between $650 (if everything costs the same as it does now) and $2450 (if we dramatically increase prices to account for the setting). A vigilance class frigate is worth 5000 domain credits, in dollars that would be between $3,250,000 and $12,250,000. Considering that we are talking about a military spaceship and that an F-15E, a mere atmosphere based fighter, costs $31,100,000[6] either these spaceships are extraordinarily cheap or there is something highly expensive about supplies I failed to consider.

CITATIONS:
[1] http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/FoodPlans/2012/CostofFoodMay2012.pdf
[2] http://fractalsoftworks.com/category/lore-2/
[3]From Google, who got it from World Bank.
[4] http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/electricity_generation.cfm    (I would use the 2012 costs, except opening the associated PDF file keeps crashing my internet for some reason)
[5] http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm
[6] http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=102
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 05:58:42 PM by Chancellor Meatsteak »
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Catra

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2012, 06:27:23 PM »

Maybe they have a replicator like on star trek and the supplies fuel it. Personally, I don't want to have to worry about buying repair supplies, ammo, food, and spare fighters separately.


and i'm not saying separate them, i'm saying the supplies should be tracked independently so that repairing your ships doesn't make your crew turn into starving obese diabetics.

it'll look something like this when you scroll over some info panel detailing the amount of stuff you have in your inventory:

Supplies:

Food : 1000 (X days remaining)
Spare ship components : 1000
Spare Fighters : 1000 (this would need to be balanced lol)
Replacement Ammo: 1000
etc etc

then 10 days later docked at a station after various events have taken place (battles, exploration etc etc) :

Supplies:

Food : 500
Spare ship components : 760
Spare Fighters : 940
Replacement Ammo: 700
etc etc

and when you go to buy more supplies, instead of buying 300 units and having mismatched numbers, you would buy the amount that you would want it to be refilled to. (so say you would want 200 more Food so its closer to the ammo and components, you would select 700, but if you wanted everything closer to the fighters, you would select 940).
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Thaago

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2012, 06:33:00 PM »

Spoiler
It takes, 0.1 supply per day to feed 6 men supplies costing 6 credits each, 1 credit can feed a man for 10 days

Actually supplies are worth 5 (you just buy at x1.2 price, likewise you sell at x0.8 ), and my 800 man crew need 8 supplies per day. One supply can supply a man for one hundred days, therefore one credit is 20 days of supply.

Now the USDA[1] lists the average food budget of a man aged 19-50 to be between $41.70-$82.80 per week. If the crew members eat as cheaply as possible the amount per twenty days is $119.14. However very little farming was completed in the sector before the collapse[2], if we assume is ten times as expensive as a result then cost of food will be $1191.43. For simplicity's sake I will round these numbers to $120 and $1200 respectively.

The United States use 12,914 kilowatt-hours per capita annually[3]. The estimated total system levelized cost of advanced nuclear power in in 2017 is $112.70 per megawatt-hour[4]. This means the average US citizen spends $1455.41 per year, or $79.75 per 20 days. If we assume that the increased energy costs of a spaceship is equally countered by increased efficiency of whatever futuristic reactors they use, then the energy costs of a crew member can be rounded to $80 per 20 days. If we assume the cost of power is ten times as much (say, for example, the grav generators needs a metric crapton of power, or the reactor runs on some expensive rare material) than the cost is $800.

The average consumer expenditures on apparel and services was $1700 in 2010[5]. Since it doesn't specify what these "and services" are I'm going to assume for the sake of this calculation it's just clothing and the money that would that would be spent on "and services" are factored into the costs of whatever special suits the crew use at work. Hence, clothing costs are $93.15 for 20 days. From the same article, average healthcare costs from 2010 is $3157, which for 20 days would be $172.99. Again from the same article "other" costs are $3379 for 2010, which will be to $185.15 for 20 days. Adding these costs together totals $451.29, which we will round to $450.

I will not include water prices, as I will assume it is recycled by on-ship systems (therefore factoring into electricity costs) or included alongside food. Water isn't exactly a scarce resource in space at any rate so I imagine the cost to be relatively negligible. Likewise I will not include gas costs as I assume that gas isn't used anymore. Entertainment costs will be either a personal expense or be included in electricity (which suddenly makes me wonder what video games they have in the future. Earthfarer, perhaps?).

Thus the value of one domain credit is between $650 (if everything costs the same as it does now) and $2450 (if we dramatically increase prices to account for the setting). A vigilance class frigate is worth 5000 domain credits, in dollars that would be between $3,250,000 and $12,250,000. Considering that we are talking about a military spaceship and that an F-15E, a mere atmosphere based fighter, costs $31,100,000[6] either these spaceships are extraordinarily cheap or there is something highly expensive about supplies I failed to consider.

CITATIONS:
[1] http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/FoodPlans/2012/CostofFoodMay2012.pdf
[2] http://fractalsoftworks.com/category/lore-2/
[3]From Google, who got it from World Bank.
[4] http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/electricity_generation.cfm    (I would use the 2012 costs, except opening the associated PDF file keeps crashing my internet for some reason)
[5] http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm
[6] http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=102
[close]

This was an excellent post! Well done!
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StahnAileron

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Re: Credit Value?
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2012, 10:20:20 PM »


The United States use 12,914 kilowatt-hours per capita annually[3]. The estimated total system levelized cost of advanced nuclear power in in 2017 is $112.70 per megawatt-hour[4]. This means the average US citizen spends $1455.41 per year, or $79.75 per 20 days. If we assume that the increased energy costs of a spaceship is equally countered by increased efficiency of whatever futuristic reactors they use, then the energy costs of a crew member can be rounded to $80 per 20 days. If we assume the cost of power is ten times as much (say, for example, the grav generators needs a metric crapton of power, or the reactor runs on some expensive rare material) than the cost is $800.

Hmm. What about accounting for ship reactor fuel use instead? Well, we don't really know what they use for a powerplant and fuel (separate from engine fuel, I'm guessing though.) Assuming they use fusion reactors, we would have to figure out the cost of deuterium, the amount of power you wuld need to sufficently power a given vessel, and how much deuterium you'd need/use to generate that power. (I won't bother with efficiency issues for simplicity.) A basis for shipboard power usage could be the International Space Station, maybe? it's the largest space-born construct in existence and operational status right now. We could account for lore specifics from there if need be.

The average consumer expenditures on apparel and services was $1700 in 2010[5]. Since it doesn't specify what these "and services" are I'm going to assume for the sake of this calculation it's just clothing and the money that would that would be spent on "and services" are factored into the costs of whatever special suits the crew use at work. Hence, clothing costs are $93.15 for 20 days. From the same article, average healthcare costs from 2010 is $3157, which for 20 days would be $172.99. Again from the same article "other" costs are $3379 for 2010, which will be to $185.15 for 20 days. Adding these costs together totals $451.29, which we will round to $450.

Actually, considering the setting, wouldn't it be better to use military uniform maintenance allowances/stipends instead? I can't imagine combat vessels with crew that would live "consumer" grade lives. (This not accounting for fringe benefits that real-world militaries provide as "free" services though.) I would expect the Hegemony, Indepedent, and maybe Pirate vessels to be a bit more militaristic in setting. I got maybe $100-$200 a YEAR for uniform maintenance while I was in the US Navy.


Thus the value of one domain credit is between $650 (if everything costs the same as it does now) and $2450 (if we dramatically increase prices to account for the setting). A vigilance class frigate is worth 5000 domain credits, in dollars that would be between $3,250,000 and $12,250,000. Considering that we are talking about a military spaceship and that an F-15E, a mere atmosphere based fighter, costs $31,100,000[6] either these spaceships are extraordinarily cheap or there is something highly expensive about supplies I failed to consider.

I think the in-game lore reasoning wuld be automated mass production. Economies of scales and all that ^_~ That or DEFLATION happened at some point. (Considering the shift to a new currency, deflation could've happened at some point.) Then again, how many game really scale their in-game currencies correctly to be consistent and realistic anyway? That only seems to happen when they use a real-world currency with a scenario based somewhat on modern society and technology. (Honestly, with inflation taken into account, I would expect a Paragon to cost in the trillions alone, if not more. A modern Nimitz nuclear carrier is about $5-$6 billion just for the ship alone.)

Well, that just my thoughts...
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