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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starfarer 0.53a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 368081 times)

PCCL

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #450 on: July 16, 2012, 12:52:28 AM »

the blog says it's supposed to be visible....
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Faiter119

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #451 on: July 16, 2012, 02:38:38 AM »

the blog says it's supposed to be visible....

They are!
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NONOCE

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #452 on: July 16, 2012, 03:12:14 AM »

Ah, lances were completly overpowered.
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PCCL

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #453 on: July 16, 2012, 03:12:40 AM »

the blog says it's supposed to be visible....

They are!
ya, I know.

that was a response to warstalker's post wanting the phase ships to be less visible
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DJ Die

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #454 on: July 16, 2012, 04:28:37 AM »

Ah, lances were completly overpowered.
hmmm not really they were overpowered against small ships and anything without shields....but cruisers and bigger will just laugh at your feeble attempts to break their shields and just went the flux before you fire again
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Upgradecap

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #455 on: July 16, 2012, 04:30:40 AM »

But they where damn annoying against battelships since it forced them to use shields or get blasted by EMP and damage, and that in turn cause them to travel in a lot slower speeds.
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Mattk50

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #456 on: July 16, 2012, 06:30:37 AM »

Im not so sure about the tachyon lance nerf, i would have made it either 50% range or 50% damage, but both im not sure about. I haven't really though this through like alex must have (and like i usually do with my suggestions) so i guess i'll just wait and see how they play in the patch. I like all the other changes, maybe the "new" Proximity Charge Launcher could have a frigate sized explosion radius or something to make it usefull.
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #457 on: July 16, 2012, 08:41:26 AM »

Ah, lances were completly overpowered.
hmmm not really they were overpowered against small ships and anything without shields....but cruisers and bigger will just laugh at your feeble attempts to break their shields and just went the flux before you fire again
Im not so sure about the tachyon lance nerf, i would have made it either 50% range or 50% damage, but both im not sure about. I haven't really though this through like alex must have (and like i usually do with my suggestions) so i guess i'll just wait and see how they play in the patch. I like all the other changes, maybe the "new" Proximity Charge Launcher could have a frigate sized explosion radius or something to make it usefull.

The problem with the lance is that in sufficient numbers - say, 2-4 capital ships equipped with it - it could snipe capital ships from across the map, shields or no shields. A few wings Wasps worked great for spotting and capturing, and could not be countered by fighters or frigates - even if seriously outnumbered - due to lance support. Even early in the battle, when only one capital ship was deployed.

With the range reduction, it's no longer an overpowering support weapon in the early stages - you need to take a sensor array or two - crucially, without lance support - before it really comes into its own. The damage reduction is to prevent it from being overpowering when it does get the range boost - it's intended as a support for ships fighting in the front lines, not something that can take ships out straight up.

Even with the changes, the lance still seems a bit too good in testing. I don't think this'll be the final incarnation of it - perhaps not even for 0.53a - but we'll see.

If we're talking about the visuals, I really like how the phase coils came out. Haven't seen anything similar, either - where the "spatial distortion" thing has been done, ahem, once or twice. But, of course, it's a matter of taste, and there's no arguing about taste :)
From looks of screen shots Phase Coils reveal too much of ships location (well if it will have 10% opacity it will be hardly detectable too), while if it will be "spatial distortion", player must be careful and watch background in order to detect invisible ship. Well it's Innovation (Phase Cloak) vs Classics (Optical Cloak), I will be glad if both of them will be implemented :)

Well, to be fair, you're not *supposed* to have any trouble seeing a phased ship :) I hear what you're saying, though. More neat stuff (such as an optical cloak) is always nice, but have to draw the line somewhere, or things will never get finished. That's probably the hardest part - deciding what not to do - and also one of the most important.
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neonesis

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #458 on: July 16, 2012, 08:54:08 AM »

Something about Phase Charges:
I don't know how many of you guys tried it, and realised how powerful it is as a weapon.

In this scenario, I use Dominator armed with three hardpointed Phase Charge Launchers. Now, I know it is a heavy cruiser, but truth to be told, any ship can make it, provided it has enough Medium Missile slots (2 is good, 3 is perfect). Why? Because you will take almost no damage whatsoever, as I shall demonstrate.
1. http://i47.tinypic.com/9td7nr.png
Expanded missile rack helps a lot, so you can spam charges. As I said before, you can take 0 capacitors/vents, it doesn't matter really, I did, because it was a test, and I didn't know yet.

Now, let's start with entire simulation fighter fleet: (note: I screen'd at wrong moment, and didn't catch selecting fighters, you can see them on the next one, in the upper left corner)
http://i45.tinypic.com/vqhav5.png

The tactic is to turn your ship from one side to another, while shooting Phase Charges (they are on alternating fire):
2. http://i46.tinypic.com/30nexc2.png
3. http://i47.tinypic.com/1rx24w.png
On this one you can see that Gladiuses are the only ones that will ever hit you, because they have biggest range and flank you from both sides. Nevertheless, they will be ripped to pieces in just a moment:
4. http://i46.tinypic.com/20t33x1.png
5. http://i46.tinypic.com/zsapi.png

One Phase Charge is enough to take down entire Talon wing, most of the time. When you shoot at least two of them at a time... fighters just don't stand a chance.

So I thought, let's see how this works out in a real fight - my Dominator(same setup as before) versus simulation Dominator:
1. http://i46.tinypic.com/2rdf6h5.png
Just shoot in his general direction, lead the target, bring up your shields from time to time so that he doesn't destroy your missile mounts, and watch him die.
2. http://i47.tinypic.com/2hfl6cp.png

And that's it. He doesn't even last a minute. No overloads, no hull damage, no visible armor damage.

All this might be useless after the patch, as I cannot easily predict how this weapon will work after changes. But still, for fun ;)
And maybe it will help Alex in future balance, et cetera.
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DJ Die

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #459 on: July 16, 2012, 09:11:28 AM »

The problem with the lance is that in sufficient numbers - say, 2-4 capital ships equipped with it - it could snipe capital ships from across the map, shields or no shields. A few wings Wasps worked great for spotting and capturing, and could not be countered by fighters or frigates - even if seriously outnumbered - due to lance support. Even early in the battle, when only one capital ship was deployed.

With the range reduction, it's no longer an overpowering support weapon in the early stages - you need to take a sensor array or two - crucially, without lance support - before it really comes into its own. The damage reduction is to prevent it from being overpowering when it does get the range boost - it's intended as a support for ships fighting in the front lines, not something that can take ships out straight up.

Even with the changes, the lance still seems a bit too good in testing. I don't think this'll be the final incarnation of it - perhaps not even for 0.53a - but we'll see.
yeah i agree with the range reduction 5k was just ridiculous...
its just that if you have 2-4 caps what CAN stand in your way? i mean they only difference will be that you have to get in range with your ships so it takes 2 minutes longer....last game i had 2 Onslaughts supported by 2 medusas and there was just nothing that would last longer than few seconds if it made a mistake got too close....
now i have a paragon armed with 3 tachs and one plasma cannon(havent found another TL yet) and i actually feel it takes longer to kill many larger ships....its true that i can just slaughter anything small....
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WarStalkeR

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #460 on: July 16, 2012, 11:03:31 AM »

Well, to be fair, you're not *supposed* to have any trouble seeing a phased ship :)
I think we started to misunderstand science fiction terminology. Originally:
Phased Out Ship - can be seen as distorted half-transparent shadow, but can't be damaged due the fact because it's in another dimension or sub-dimension. It also can't damage other ships because phased out ship is... in another dimension.
Optically Cloaked Ship - can be barely seen as transparent distortion, it can be damaged by incoming fire, including random one. Can ship fire or not in cloaked state is rather depends from quality of cloaking device, as well as amount of spatial distortion caused by ship.
Phase Cloaked Ship - same as phased out ship, but also cloaked. Almost Fatal Combination. It's not the limit for it, it can be advanced further using M-Theory and M-Physics, but we will pass on this one :P

I hear what you're saying, though. More neat stuff (such as an optical cloak) is always nice
Sure, C&C: Tiberium Dawn & Predator Movie showed us how cool should look effect of cloaking device :)

but have to draw the line somewhere, or things will never get finished. That's probably the hardest part - deciding what not to do - and also one of the most important.
Oh come on! You have all time in universe, and it's about 6 billion years, and within next 40 years there will be possibility for anybody to become immortal :D
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Upgradecap

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #461 on: July 16, 2012, 11:14:43 AM »

Oh come on! You have all time in universe, and it's about 6 billion years, and within next 40 years there will be possibility for anybody to become immortal :D


Yeah, as if -_-
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hadesian

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #462 on: July 16, 2012, 11:49:51 AM »

Oh come on! You have all time in universe, and it's about 6 billion years, and within next 40 years there will be possibility for anybody to become immortal :D


Yeah, as if -_-
No, he's right. Look at how far we've gone in ten years. By next year it's supposed we'll have octo core Graphite processor based phones with self healing screens. It's hard for anyone to say where we'll be but I'm damn sure the people who are about as old as me and you may never die.
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Temjin

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #463 on: July 16, 2012, 12:03:08 PM »

I think people are getting too caught up in terminology. "Phase Cloak," in Starfarer, is visible but untouchable.

Kind of weird when you realize that light is reflecting off the ship to make it visible, but lasers don't do anything... but this is science fiction. Not a big deal. I prefer this interesting new spin on a "subterfuge" combat mechanic than the all-too-overdone traditional "invisibility cloak" setup that populates most sci-fi universes.
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Kregoth

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Re: Starfarer 0.53a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #464 on: July 16, 2012, 12:20:24 PM »

The problem with the lance is that in sufficient numbers - say, 2-4 capital ships equipped with it - it could snipe capital ships from across the map, shields or no shields. A few wings Wasps worked great for spotting and capturing, and could not be countered by fighters or frigates - even if seriously outnumbered - due to lance support. Even early in the battle, when only one capital ship was deployed.

With the range reduction, it's no longer an overpowering support weapon in the early stages - you need to take a sensor array or two - crucially, without lance support - before it really comes into its own. The damage reduction is to prevent it from being overpowering when it does get the range boost - it's intended as a support for ships fighting in the front lines, not something that can take ships out straight up.

Even with the changes, the lance still seems a bit too good in testing. I don't think this'll be the final incarnation of it - perhaps not even for 0.53a - but we'll see.

I have always viewed the Lance as a support weapon due to it's range, I think you should keep the range but instead of doing any damage it should be straight up EM damage. This would give the Lance a distinct role, a long range laser meant for helping front line fighters by disabling ship systems, This would also make the Lance useless against shields, but very handy when hitting heavily armed targets. Oh and it shouldn't be capable of hitting fighters.
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