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[Alrenous]

Trying to optimize my Paragon loadout. I've probably forgotten some test cases because I didn't run into them.

Also,

Don't ever think that the paragon can stand toe to toe with the Onslaught... you'll just get slaughtered by the autocannons and then the H assault guns. If you want to try it, try it with 4 tachyon lances. You might survive

What! This is total nonsense.  I recently captured a paragon and I switched immediately to it as my flagship.  The paragon is absolutely insane with max vents, flux conduit, hardened shields, and stabilized shields.  You'll have to sacrifice 4-6 weapon slots to get this though.

Outrageous indeed - I feel compelled to respond. Including the bit about sacrificing weapon slots.



Change the lances to plasma cannons.
Change the blasters to pulse lasers.
Change the back four burst PD to LR PD
Change the sabots to annihilators.
Swap out hardened shields for armoured turrets, gryos, and slap the rest in vents.

This thing can go head-to-head with a standard Onslaught, with regular crew, and win without hull damage. Tactics: put everything but the plasma cannons on autofire and fly straight up to the Onslaught with shield up. Idly shoot until the Onslaught drops its shield, then fire a single plasma salvo. Drop shields when flux gets high, and then shoot into the hole opened by the plasma until there's pretty flashes.

The armour's pretty much shot after one Onslaught though. This could be solved by better tactics, but then that could be countered by better AI...and I'd rather just avoid the whole intelligence arms race.

[KDR_11k]

I think all of these trials are going to be skewed by the simulation loadouts and the 50% damage reduction player controlled ships get. An Onslaught that's configured for fighting hightech ships will likely carry a lot more kinetic firepower than the standard loadout.

[Catra]

you can turn off the 50% damage reduction in the options menu.

[KDR_11k]

True, I just did some tests with my thumper Onslaught (it still wins against a standard Onslaught but it's half wrecked instead of barely scratched after such a fight).

[Alrenous]

The standard Onslaught can train three heavy autocannons, two mark 9 autocannons and two light dual autocannons on the same spot. That's a reasonable amount of kinetic. You can get more, but not much more and it would come at the cost of explosive damage, vents, and its insulated engine.


A storm needler + heavy mauler + empty hardpoint + harpoon pod Onslaught can win the simulation duel at 16500 hull.

Thanks for the thumper idea, a hellbore/thumper/light dual autocannon system did even better, 17962
Oh wait, that may just have been because I managed to get it to vent.

[KDR_11k]

Considering the armor the high tech ships have I'm not sure it's even worth packing HE weapons against them, once you're hitting the hull the difference is moot anyway. Might as well brute-force through the armor and just focus on keeping their shields down. Sabots in the missile slots on an Onslaught work pretty well, especially if you cruise into a range where they go into projectile mode before they leave your hitbox.

[Catra]

yes but you first have to get to it, and the paragon being the paragon generally means its shields can last for days, thus by the time it comes down the ships capacitors will be very high up there so you would want to make every shot count during its venting.

[hadesian]

Trying to optimize my Paragon loadout. I've probably forgotten some test cases because I didn't run into them.

Also,

Don't ever think that the paragon can stand toe to toe with the Onslaught... you'll just get slaughtered by the autocannons and then the H assault guns. If you want to try it, try it with 4 tachyon lances. You might survive

What! This is total nonsense.  I recently captured a paragon and I switched immediately to it as my flagship.  The paragon is absolutely insane with max vents, flux conduit, hardened shields, and stabilized shields.  You'll have to sacrifice 4-6 weapon slots to get this though.

Outrageous indeed - I feel compelled to respond. Including the bit about sacrificing weapon slots.



Change the lances to plasma cannons.
Change the blasters to pulse lasers.
Change the back four burst PD to LR PD
Change the sabots to annihilators.
Swap out hardened shields for armoured turrets, gryos, and slap the rest in vents.

This thing can go head-to-head with a standard Onslaught, with regular crew, and win without hull damage. Tactics: put everything but the plasma cannons on autofire and fly straight up to the Onslaught with shield up. Idly shoot until the Onslaught drops its shield, then fire a single plasma salvo. Drop shields when flux gets high, and then shoot into the hole opened by the plasma until there's pretty flashes.

The armour's pretty much shot after one Onslaught though. This could be solved by better tactics, but then that could be countered by better AI...and I'd rather just avoid the whole intelligence arms race.

Your tactic involves the use of utilizing an AI problem, instead of utilizing a better weapons package, better mods etc.

An onslaught can chuck out railguns, hypervelocity drivers, mark IX autocannons, bring down the shields of an paragon quite quickly. I have roughly three hit a paragons shield with gauss cannons (six shots) and after that the paragon gets ripped. Up. I don't doubt for a second the paragon is a brutal ship - but it's outmatched by the Onslaught (even if it is a low tech battleship, you can be pretty frickin tactical with it) with all of it's... everything

[Kommodore Krieg]

The Onslaught also has quite a range advantage with an ITR and those already long range kinetic weapons.  And while we are on the topic of optimized load outs, how is everyone optimizing their Onslaughts?  I've found the standard variant with Hellbores instead of HAGs to work very well as long as you are vigilant in controlling what guns are firing when.  Otherwise you max flux too quickly. 

[Alrenous]

Which AI problem in particular?

[Catra]

gauss in large
dual flak in the 3 mediums upfront
single barrel flak in the 4 mediums by the engines
high velocity drivers in the 2 forward mediums by the missile launchers
pilums in the launchers
railguns for the small

[hadesian]

Which AI problem in particular?

The one I always encounter, when the captain decides now is a good time to lower shields. I lower shields in fire when I don't want to overload, happy with armour and hull state and know it's worth it.

[Thaago]

Which AI problem in particular?

The one I always encounter, when the captain decides now is a good time to lower shields. I lower shields in fire when I don't want to overload, happy with armour and hull state and know it's worth it.

I actually think thats pretty much fixed in this version. The AI rarely gets overloaded by kinetics and is pretty dang twitchy at getting the shields up to block HE. I swear I've sometimes seen it timing its shields in pulses between my heavy mauler and hyper velocity rounds, taking the kinetic on the hull and HE on the shield.

[Kommodore Krieg]

Which AI problem in particular?

The one I always encounter, when the captain decides now is a good time to lower shields. I lower shields in fire when I don't want to overload, happy with armour and hull state and know it's worth it.

I actually think thats pretty much fixed in this version. The AI rarely gets overloaded by kinetics and is pretty dang twitchy at getting the shields up to block HE. I swear I've sometimes seen it timing its shields in pulses between my heavy mauler and hyper velocity rounds, taking the kinetic on the hull and HE on the shield.

I've seen this too, and the AI is very good at it.  I was fighting a Dominator and it was doing exactly that, twitching it's shields up to block my HE and dropping them again for the kinetics in between shots.  It is better at doing this than I am. 

[Alrenous]

Since the start of this thread I've found that harpoon pods combined with storm needlers is great for forcing an overload. Which I then follow up with a salvo from my harpoon pods. I've found splitting the salvo is best, mainly to stagger the cooldowns and also to force the AI to keep its shields up longer against my needlers.


I've tried to catch a Paragon with my Onslaught, but it isn't working. Either I get Paragon And Friends - oddly I don't fare so well ramboing against multiple capital ships and/or Auroras - or the Paragon deploys last and runs away because everything else is dead.