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Author Topic: Why the Aurora nerf?  (Read 16705 times)

BonhommeCarnaval

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Why the Aurora nerf?
« on: May 07, 2012, 02:01:56 PM »

I was under the impression that the Aurora was the most high tech cruiser out there, specializing in pure combat. You can see that easily when comparing it with the Apogee, the Apogee has MUCH better utility stats (cargo space for example). Now the Apogee ALSO has insanely better shields and the Aurora doesn't have much of a role.

I'm reffering to the shield efficiency of the Aurora being nerfed from 0.6 to 0.8, while the Apogee keeps the 0.6. The Paragon still has 0.6 aswell, making me wonder why the most high tech combat cruiser was not deemed worthy of the Tri-Tachyon's best shield generators. :P

Keep in mind that with hardened shields and an elite crew (which is not uncommon for an Aurora setup), the shield efficiency was nerfed from 0.3 to 0.5. The Aurora has effectively lost almost half of its survivability and it now a lame second grade cruiser.

For the sake of comparison, the Paragon has 0.6 shield efficiency just like the Apogee EXPLORATION cruiser. On the other hand, the Aurora's 0.8 efficiency is now matched by the mid-tech Eagle!
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 02:17:09 PM by BonhommeCarnaval »
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Vandala

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 02:23:21 PM »

Probably has to do with the fact that in the older version you could play tag with Onslaughts in an aurora, and kill them in that way. It was an absolutely overpowered beast of a ship.

Right now its still a damn fine ship, fast, maneuverable, good weapon arc spread, still good shields.

BonhommeCarnaval

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2012, 02:33:15 PM »

Probably has to do with the fact that in the older version you could play tag with Onslaughts in an aurora, and kill them in that way. It was an absolutely overpowered beast of a ship.

Right now its still a damn fine ship, fast, maneuverable, good weapon arc spread, still good shields mid-tech shields outlcassed by an exploration cruiser.

Fixed.

PS : the Tempest and Hyperion (and many other smaller ships) can still beat an Onslaught. The Onslaught is supposed to be supported by smaller ships so that it doesn't fall for such tactics. The Aurora seems like it's supposed to be the cruiser equivalent of the Hyperion frigate, Medusa destroyer and Paragon capital ship, which are also top of the line, highest-tech pure combat ships. They all had the same shield efficiency (0.6) and they are all overpowered beasts of a ship except the 0.52 version of the Aurora.

Hyperion, frigate class, high tech, combat specialized, expensive but very powerful, 0.6 shield efficiency
Medusa, destroyer class, high tech, combat specialized, expensive but very powerful, 0.6 shield efficiency
Aurora, cruiser class, high tech, combat specialized, expensive but very powerful, 0.6 shield efficiency (nerfed to 0.8?!)
Paragon, capital class, high tech, combat specialized, expensive but very powerful, 0.6 shield efficiency

Now I might be wrong but I thought there was a pattern and that it was pretty balanced. The Aurora could be nerfed into a freighter for all I care, but that does leave a void. Will there be a new ship to fill the role of high tech, combat specialized cruiser? The role is now filled by the Apogee which has 0.6 shield efficiency, but is also specialized in cargo, fuel efficiency, crew capacity and hangar capacity. Seems overpowered. :P
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Vandala

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2012, 02:41:12 PM »

I don't think you understand just how bad it was. The former Aurora could stand in between two onslaughts and push a third one out of it's way to make itself an exit. The ship was insane. It could kill just about anything just by pushing it around with its shield, even onslaughts, escorts be damned. Hell, it could take out every escort it encountered and then get to the big guys. The darn thing was nigh unstoppable. And if you brought an escort of tempests and xyphos along then nothing could stand in your way.

BonhommeCarnaval

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 02:46:42 PM »

if you brought an escort of tempests and xyphos along then nothing could stand in your way.

Well then that's not a problem with the Aurora, that's a problem with the enemy not bringing his own escort of tempests and xyphos.

As for "how bad it was", I played it extensively pre-patch and it was nowhere near as good as you make it out to be. The only way it could match your claim is if you were playing with the 50% damage handicap, in which case you could also say that a player piloted Onslaught obliterates 5 AI Auroras so that point is moot. Even in 0.51 a Paragon was tougher than an Aurora in every way except size and speed, which would not be a factor if you were just "pushing 3 Onslaughts around with your shields", but as any experienced player knows, an Onslaught vs Paragon duel in 0.51 can go both ways if you play on normal mode (100% damage to player ship). The Onslaught has been boosted since then.
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Sunfire

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2012, 02:47:52 PM »

I don't think you understand just how bad it was. The former Aurora could stand in between two onslaughts and push a third one out of it's way to make itself an exit. The ship was insane. It could kill just about anything just by pushing it around with its shield, even onslaughts, escorts be damned. Hell, it could take out every escort it encountered and then get to the big guys. The darn thing was nigh unstoppable. And if you brought an escort of tempests and xyphos along then nothing could stand in your way.

This, human controlled auoras were literally the best ship in the game, now it seems more like a cruiser, not an invincible death machine
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icepick37

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2012, 02:52:55 PM »

I have to agree that the aurora needed it. It was a complete rofl stomp on anything that moved.
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Vandala

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2012, 02:53:29 PM »

if you brought an escort of tempests and xyphos along then nothing could stand in your way.

Well then that's not a problem with the Aurora, that's a problem with the enemy not bringing his own escort of tempests and xyphos.

As for "how bad it was", I played it extensively pre-patch and it was nowhere near as good as you make it out to be. The only way it could match your claim is if you were playing with the 50% damage handicap, in which case you could also say that a player piloted Onslaught obliterates 5 AI Auroras so that point is moot. Even in 0.51 a Paragon was tougher than an Aurora in every way except size and speed, which would not be a factor if you were just "pushing 3 Onslaughts around with your shields", but as any experienced player knows, an Onslaught vs Paragon duel in 0.51 can go both ways if you play on normal mode (100% damage to player ship). The Onslaught has been boosted since then.

50% damage is the standard setting, that's how I play, I would guess thats how most play. Besides, the damage reduction is kind of a placeholder for character abilities/boosts that will eventually make it into the game so its still a valid argument and needs to be taking into account for game balance.

And yes, it really was that ridiculously good. Besides the broken 'Tachyon Lance at long range' it was the most balance breaking thing in the game I think.

Uomoz

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2012, 02:55:08 PM »

if you brought an escort of tempests and xyphos along then nothing could stand in your way.

Well then that's not a problem with the Aurora, that's a problem with the enemy not bringing his own escort of tempests and xyphos.

As for "how bad it was", I played it extensively pre-patch and it was nowhere near as good as you make it out to be. The only way it could match your claim is if you were playing with the 50% damage handicap, in which case you could also say that a player piloted Onslaught obliterates 5 AI Auroras so that point is moot. Even in 0.51 a Paragon was tougher than an Aurora in every way except size and speed, which would not be a factor if you were just "pushing 3 Onslaughts around with your shields", but as any experienced player knows, an Onslaught vs Paragon duel in 0.51 can go both ways if you play on normal mode (100% damage to player ship). The Onslaught has been boosted since then.

50% damage is the standard setting, that's how I play, I would guess thats how most play. Besides, the damage reduction is kind of a placeholder for character abilities/boosts that will eventually make it into the game so its still a valid argument and needs to be taking into account for game balance.

And yes, it really was that ridiculously good. Besides the broken 'Tachyon Lance at long range' it was the most balance breaking thing in the game I think.

It was beastly (and still is) even at 100% dmg.
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BonhommeCarnaval

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 02:55:29 PM »

human controlled auoras were literally the best ship in the game

This, human controlled tempests were literally the best ship in the game
This, human controlled hyperions were literally the best ship in the game
This, human controlled medusas were literally the best ship in the game
This, human controlled paragons were literally the best ship in the game
This, human controlled onslaughts were literally the best ship in the game

Seems like you can say that about a lot of ships! Try a human controlled Onslaught against any ship, or even a Dominator. Then look at an AI controlled Aurora (I kill those in a frigate even in 0.51). Of course most human controlled ships are overpowered, that's not the ship.
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Alex

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2012, 02:58:07 PM »

You've got to look at the entire picture. I'm not saying the balance is perfect now, but the reason for the shield downgrade is the combination of mobility and staying power was much too good.

If you want a lore justification, let's say that while it's a high-tech ship, the hull design is optimized around giving the ship its superior engines, and a slightly inferior shield generator is one sacrifice that had to be made.


Will there be a new ship to fill the role of high tech, combat specialized cruiser? The role is now filled by the Apogee which has 0.6 shield efficiency ...

Come now, that's rather blowing it out of proportion :) The Aurora is still a very good ship, and clearly the military high tech cruiser. The change just emphasizes how it's meant to be used - as a fast attack ship (for its size), outmaneuvering its enemies, rather than just tanking everything.

Side note: the Hyperion doesn't quite belong on that list - it's supposed to be a cut above the other ships, for its size class. You can see that from its armament and a general lack of non-combat utility.

Side note #2: Game-mechanics-wise, shield efficiency is used to influence the balance between the offense and defense for a ship. The 0.6/0.8/1+ high/mid/low tech values were just a starting point, not something set in stone for the different tech types. You can expect those numbers to change more over time, too. (For an example: see what happened to the Conquest's shield efficiency in 0.52a - it's now 1.4).

So, while the general trend will continue to be higher efficiency for high tech ships - mainly because of their lower armor - there will be exceptions, where needed to get the ship to fill its intended role better.
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Pentakill

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2012, 03:04:56 PM »

I have to agree with the majority on this one, i've been playing SF for ages and the Aurora has long been my favorite ship because it can't be beat, even with 100% damage (which is all I play) it's a monster. But buddy, even after the nerf I can still take on ANY AI controlled ship 1v1 or probably even 2v1 without any trouble at all in a fully fit Aurora. It is odd that it got a nerf when the others didn't but as it stands it DID need one to stay on par with them. They might all have .6 shields but the god-mode Aurora has an insane frontal assault, more so than anything in the game even close to its size, and I can personally tell you I can take on an onslaught head-on with the updated Aurora without breaking a sweat. So yeah it may suck that it's slightly less crazy but lets all be honest here, it needed it, as much as it pains me to say so.
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Dri

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2012, 03:20:55 PM »

Yeah, seriously dude, its not the end of the world that the shields have been slightly nerfed. Seems like you just want to be able to go shields up 100% of the time and not give a damn about anything else. :-X

Its the fastest cruiser in the game with great weapon slots and it still has amazing shields compared to any of the midline and lowtech ships. Its still the best cruiser there is as it can fly circles around most others. The Apogee is slower, has fewer ordinance points, less flux capacity, less armor, less hull integrity etc etc.
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Psycho Society

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2012, 03:38:33 PM »



50% damage is the standard setting, that's how I play, I would guess thats how most play. Besides, the damage reduction is kind of a placeholder for character abilities/boosts that will eventually make it into the game so its still a valid argument and needs to be taking into account for game balance.

And yes, it really was that ridiculously good. Besides the broken 'Tachyon Lance at long range' it was the most balance breaking thing in the game I think.

Half damage is the default setting, and I seriously doubt it is a placeholder for anything at all. You can't balance something like a 50% damage reduction. A ship with it will always destroy anything comparable, period. I will be incredibly surprised if officer abilities increases the effectiveness your ship alone by anything approaching 50%. No hard feeling intended, but you really are playing the game 'easy mode'.
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BonhommeCarnaval

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Re: Why the Aurora nerf?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2012, 03:40:49 PM »

It was as good a cruiser as the Paragon is a good capital ship. It also has crappy utility stats just like the Hyperion. I think it would be more appropriate to exchange the speeds between the Aurora and Apogee and let the Aurora have the 0.6 shields. That would match the Tempest-?-Apogee-Odyssey line of fastest ships with slightly inferior shields and good utlity stats. You could also nerf the Apogee, Hyperion, Paragon and Medusa's shields to 0.8 and that would also make sense, I'm not entirely against some sort of nerf there.

Note that the Medusa has 0.6 shields and is the fastest destroyer aswell. The Apogee has 0.6 shields and is the best utility cruiser aswell. I just don't see what the Aurora does anymore, that the Apogee doesn't. It's not much of a problem, I guess I'll just fly an Apogee and be just as tough with way better cargo/hangars/crew. :P
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 03:49:37 PM by BonhommeCarnaval »
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