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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Blog Posts  (Read 337487 times)

Alex

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #690 on: October 18, 2012, 01:15:48 PM »

You gonna make a new combat tutorial while you are at it?

Probably not at this point, no. Maybe? I suppose it makes sense to do it soon, given that combat is pretty finished now.


... tutorials are the bane of all that is good.
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Gothars

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #691 on: October 18, 2012, 01:48:54 PM »

You gonna make a new combat tutorial while you are at it?

Probably not at this point, no. Maybe? I suppose it makes sense to do it soon, given that combat is pretty finished now.


... tutorials are the bane of all that is good.

Maybe you should wait till you have a proper way of displaying text (communications) during combat, assuming the campaign warrants that.

You already made a somewhat soft transition from the tutorial to the first missions, which I think is great. Definitively helped me when I started playing.

I'd like it if you could expand on that, maybe let the tutorial ship be the ISS Blackstar and add some minimalist narrative elements to it (adventurous grandfather explains spaceflight to his soon-to-be-captain nephew or something). That way the first missions could be better tied in as an advanced tactics tutorials. 

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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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icepick37

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #692 on: October 18, 2012, 02:17:42 PM »

... tutorials are the bane of all that is good.

Amen! Huge huge huge huge amen...
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Thaago

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #693 on: October 18, 2012, 02:29:35 PM »

Looks really good! I see that there is now a medium escort (replacing destroyer escort?). I really like the the direct orders will be free for a short time interval - it makes sense and also lets us get the details right.
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BillyRueben

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #694 on: October 18, 2012, 02:31:44 PM »

I'm a little surprised to see that left-clicking on an empty space in the map still creates a way-point. I thought for sure you would adjust it so something like shift + left-click would be how you did it. I can already see myself accidentally creating more than a couple of way-points. I have a feeling I'm forgetting something that shift-clicking does in the map though...
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icepick37

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #695 on: October 18, 2012, 03:18:32 PM »

What are those empty waypoints used for anyway?
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Alex

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #696 on: October 18, 2012, 03:20:28 PM »

I'm a little surprised to see that left-clicking on an empty space in the map still creates a way-point. I thought for sure you would adjust it so something like shift + left-click would be how you did it. I can already see myself accidentally creating more than a couple of way-points. I have a feeling I'm forgetting something that shift-clicking does in the map though...

Well, shift-clicking adds a ship to your selection, but it could potentially pull double-duty and create a waypoint, since the context is different. But, an accidental waypoint isn't really a problem - it no longer pops up a context menu, so it's less in-your-face when it happens, and it's still removed if you simply deselect it without creating an assignment.

I'm actually hoping that people will stumble on that by accident - the fact that you can create a waypoint isn't obvious, and requiring shift-click for it would, I think, make it likely that people would have a hard time figuring out how that works.

Looks really good! I see that there is now a medium escort (replacing destroyer escort?). I really like the the direct orders will be free for a short time interval - it makes sense and also lets us get the details right.

Yeah, "destroyer escort" is gone. There are now light, medium, and heavy - only difference is the weight of ships assigned, 1/2/4. Ship weight is 1/1/2/3/4 by hull size. A right-click-created escort assignment has a weight matching all the ships in the selection.

What are those empty waypoints used for anyway?

For creating assignments. Say you want to rally a carrier somewhere that's not an objective - left click on empty space there, select "rally carrier".
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Gothars

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #697 on: October 18, 2012, 03:23:28 PM »

I'm a little surprised to see that left-clicking on an empty space in the map still creates a way-point. I thought for sure you would adjust it so something like shift + left-click would be how you did it. I can already see myself accidentally creating more than a couple of way-points. I have a feeling I'm forgetting something that shift-clicking does in the map though...

Accidental waypoint creation  happens sometimes if I don't hit a objective precisely. I think I issued a capture order with C and wonder why the objective is still not mine a minute later, only to find some ship on a reckon mission beside it.

I'm probably forgetting something, but would it not make sense to only create a empty waypoint with a right click (if nothing is selected)? Right clicking is for orders anyway.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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Alex

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #698 on: October 18, 2012, 03:26:00 PM »

I'm probably forgetting something, but would it not make sense to only create a empty waypoint with a right click (if nothing is selected)? Right clicking is for orders anyway.

The way I'm thinking about it, left-click is for selecting things, and that's what happens - a waypoint is created and selected.
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icepick37

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #699 on: October 18, 2012, 03:26:25 PM »

For creating assignments. Say you want to rally a carrier somewhere that's not an objective - left click on empty space there, select "rally carrier".

Oh right. so you'd create some waypoints, then you could assign ships rts style w/o needing to konw the details of what the assignments are.
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Alex

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #700 on: October 18, 2012, 03:33:32 PM »

Oh right. so you'd create some waypoints, then you could assign ships rts style w/o needing to konw the details of what the assignments are.

I'm not sure we're on the same page here. To make it as clear as I can - you could:
1) Create assignments exactly like you do now - i.e., either click on an objective and pick one, or click to create a waypoint and pick one.
2) Select some ships and right-click to create an assignment OR right-click on an existing assignment. So it'll either create an assignment on an objective, create a waypoint and an assignment, or assign to an existing assignment.

You still need to know the details of what the assignment is because that affects ship behavior. For example, ships assigned to an "intercept" will have tunnel vision with respect to the target, ships assigned to escort have very specific behavior re: keeping formation with the target, etc.

So, it's not like there's two parallel command structures - it's still the same structure as now, but with RTS-like inputs added.

Let me know if this makes sense :)
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icepick37

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #701 on: October 18, 2012, 03:37:59 PM »

Yeah that makes sense. I was thinking there were still waypoints in the game with NO assignment. Which have never seemed to serve a purpose. Just named waypoints cluttering up the map.

Does that make sense?  I know you can clear an assignment on them, then recreate it later, but other than that I see no purpose to the waypoint itself sticking around.
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Wyvern

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #702 on: October 18, 2012, 03:40:22 PM »

Hm.  Re: Tutorials.  I'd actually suggest giving us access to a bit more in the way of mission scripting tools instead.

If we could prevent the player from changing the outfitting of some or all of his ships, create text boxes and add or remove ships in reaction to in-game events (player dies, player reaches location / moves far enough away from location, enemy ship dies, time passes, etc.) - well.  Not only could we make tutorials for you, but we could also do some really fun things - like making a twitch shooter mission with multiple waves of enemies, or multi-stage bossfights, or...

Don't know if that's more or less work than just making tutorials yourself, though.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Alex

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #703 on: October 18, 2012, 03:46:46 PM »

Yeah that makes sense. I was thinking there were still waypoints in the game with NO assignment. Which have never seemed to serve a purpose. Just named waypoints cluttering up the map.

Does that make sense?  I know you can clear an assignment on them, then recreate it later, but other than that I see no purpose to the waypoint itself sticking around.

Ahh, yes. Right - these no longer exist. If you clear an assignment and then select something else, the empty waypoint will go away.


Hm.  Re: Tutorials.  I'd actually suggest giving us access to a bit more in the way of mission scripting tools instead.

If we could prevent the player from changing the outfitting of some or all of his ships, create text boxes and add or remove ships in reaction to in-game events (player dies, player reaches location / moves far enough away from location, enemy ship dies, time passes, etc.) - well.  Not only could we make tutorials for you, but we could also do some really fun things - like making a twitch shooter mission with multiple waves of enemies, or multi-stage bossfights, or...

Don't know if that's more or less work than just making tutorials yourself, though.

Hmm - thanks for bringing it up, I'll give that some serious thought. Part of what's making tutorials such a royal pain to deal with is the hackiness of it all - doing them right would certainly be more satisfying. But perhaps too time-consuming (which is the part that needs more serious consideration).
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Gothars

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #704 on: October 18, 2012, 03:52:16 PM »


The way I'm thinking about it, left-click is for selecting things, and that's what happens - a waypoint is created and selected.

Yeah that makes sense. I was thinking there were still waypoints in the game with NO assignment. Which have never seemed to serve a purpose. Just named waypoints cluttering up the map.

Does that make sense?  I know you can clear an assignment on them, then recreate it later, but other than that I see no purpose to the waypoint itself sticking around.

Ah, I think I'm starting to see what the problem is here. I and, I suppose, other players don't make a hard distinction between waypoints and assignments.

That's why you think of waypoints as something to select with a left-click, like a ship. While I think of them as if they were assignments or orders, which are usually given with a right-click.


Hmm - thanks for bringing it up, I'll give that some serious thought. Part of what's making tutorials such a royal pain to deal with is the hackiness of it all - doing them right would certainly be more satisfying. But perhaps too time-consuming (which is the part that needs more serious consideration).

If you can fit it in your time frame you can be sure of some epic, player made, story driven campaigns coming your way. The fist campaign would likely be the first concluded element of SF (mods don't feel anymore complete than the main game right now). I think that has the potential to bring many more people to the game before it is even finished.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 04:07:08 PM by Gothars »
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.
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