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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Blog Posts  (Read 337518 times)

kasbark

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #615 on: September 09, 2012, 07:56:44 AM »

I just came back after a couple months playing other games and read the blog post! excellent news, the skill system sounds like it will add a lot to the game!

Really looking forward to the next living changelog.
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Alex

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #616 on: September 09, 2012, 08:57:20 AM »

@Alex: Have you settled on whether hullmods will be one time unlocks or will improve with greater ranks?

Pretty much set on one-time unlocks. Too much of a can of worms to have it be incremental.

im somewhat concerned that, in making 2 affinities and 10 skills the hard-soft cap you'll make whatever's just before that a little too hard to reach...  

I'm hoping this has mod support tbh, it has the potential to just make everyone happy with whatever number you choose then.

The way I'm thinking of it is there's a rather sharp discontinuity in the level curve where the soft cap hits. And yes, this is moddable - there's actually a script that tells the game things like the XP required for level X, the number of skill/aptitude points gained at level Y, etc.


How about a mixed cap? Major progression elements stop at level X (so the player can never max out every skill), but minor progression elements continue indefinitely, with diminishing returns, so that the player always feels like he/she is grower stronger even in a marathon of a game.

In an old turn-based RPG, that might mean getting no new skills or perks past, say, level 30, but still getting a little HP each level and perhaps the occasional extra action point. Not sure what the Starfarer equivalent would be!

Interesting idea, will definitely give it some thought. Like you, not 100% sure what those would be - have to think beyond just combat, too.

Assuming the player can never get all the skills and aptitudes (which I, for one, am in favor of) will it be possible to re-spec them?

This is a thorny question for me. I'm leaning towards "no, but yes if you edit the save file/turn on dev mode/use a cheat/some such". If you had a game with a fixed world (say, like Diablo, Torchlight, WoW, etc), then allowing respecs is a no-brainer. But if your character build is actually rooted in the game world - for example, say the number of outposts you can control is determined by a skill - then that's a problem.

Never mind that you could spec one way to do something you couldn't do with one build, then respec and do something else - what you've got then is a modified - and more awkward - version of "I've maxed out everything". Again, thorny, and works much better with a static world.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 09:08:18 AM by Alex »
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Vulpes

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #617 on: September 09, 2012, 09:23:59 AM »



Assuming the player can never get all the skills and aptitudes (which I, for one, am in favor of) will it be possible to re-spec them?

This is a thorny question for me. I'm leaning towards "no, but yes if you edit the save file/turn on dev mode/use a cheat/some such". If you had a game with a fixed world (say, like Diablo, Torchlight, WoW, etc), then allowing respecs is a no-brainer. But if your character build is actually rooted in the game world - for example, say the number of outposts you can control is determined by a skill - then that's a problem.

Never mind that you could spec one way to do something you couldn't do with one build, then respec and do something else - what you've got then is a modified - and more awkward - version of "I've maxed out everything". Again, thorny, and works much better with a static world.

So long as you introduce some kind of penalty re-specs shouldn't be too game breaking.  You could make the player start off again at level 1 (or some % of their original level) and then boost their growth rate until they hit their previous level again.  Make the player work for it- if someone decides they actually wanted to focus on combat they should be able to start over again.

If someone already has assets governed by skills those assets are thusly rendered in-operational/must be discarded.
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Uomoz

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #618 on: September 09, 2012, 09:26:23 AM »

Respec lowers the game longevity by a long shot. Do not want personally.
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Alex

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #619 on: September 09, 2012, 09:28:34 AM »

So long as you introduce some kind of penalty re-specs shouldn't be too game breaking.  You could make the player start off again at level 1 (or some % of their original level) and then boost their growth rate until they hit their previous level again.  Make the player work for it- if someone decides they actually wanted to focus on combat they should be able to start over again.

If someone already has assets governed by skills those assets are thusly rendered in-operational/must be discarded.

This all sounds suspiciously like starting a new game :) Not exactly, ofc, but very close to it. Given that the game world is (will be, really...) dynamic, I'd expect starting a new game to be a relatively frequent occurrence, anyway.
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Gothars

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #620 on: September 09, 2012, 09:32:57 AM »

If you succeed in making every play-trough new and interesting, and I believe you will, there's really no need for that kind of mechanic.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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naufrago

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #621 on: September 09, 2012, 09:46:03 AM »

One more question from me- What sort of effects will the Technology attributes and skills have? The other ones I can sort of guess, but Technology is a bit of a mystery.
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #622 on: September 09, 2012, 09:57:37 AM »

A new and interesting playthough wouldn't harm any gaming experience.  I'd love to see more stuff like that.
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Dri

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #623 on: September 09, 2012, 10:24:39 AM »

Is there just one type of EXP or do you only get industry EXP when building and only combat EXP when fighting?

Do you even get EXP for doing things other than combat?
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Thaago

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #624 on: September 09, 2012, 10:45:50 AM »

So long as you introduce some kind of penalty re-specs shouldn't be too game breaking.  You could make the player start off again at level 1 (or some % of their original level) and then boost their growth rate until they hit their previous level again.  Make the player work for it- if someone decides they actually wanted to focus on combat they should be able to start over again.

If someone already has assets governed by skills those assets are thusly rendered in-operational/must be discarded.

This all sounds suspiciously like starting a new game :) Not exactly, ofc, but very close to it. Given that the game world is (will be, really...) dynamic, I'd expect starting a new game to be a relatively frequent occurrence, anyway.

Things brings up a slightly off topic question about the campaign: how many hours would you envision a game running (by which I mean the character progresses and the sector evolves to some sort of endish state)? I'm guessing that somewhere around 12-16 hours would be satisfying as a player: long enough to really get into it, but short enough that a whole bunch of playthroughs with different builds are possible.
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Alex

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #625 on: September 09, 2012, 11:16:16 AM »

One more question from me- What sort of effects will the Technology attributes and skills have? The other ones I can sort of guess, but Technology is a bit of a mystery.

Most of hullmod unlocks come from Technology skills, for example.

Is there just one type of EXP or do you only get industry EXP when building and only combat EXP when fighting?

Do you even get EXP for doing things other than combat?

I'd imagine you will, but that's TBD.

Things brings up a slightly off topic question about the campaign: how many hours would you envision a game running (by which I mean the character progresses and the sector evolves to some sort of endish state)? I'm guessing that somewhere around 12-16 hours would be satisfying as a player: long enough to really get into it, but short enough that a whole bunch of playthroughs with different builds are possible.

TBD, but I don't think it'll be a fixed number. I can see things spiraling out of control quickly in one playthrough, and a much more gradual decline in another - depending both on your actions, and on what happens in the sector. We'll see, though.
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #626 on: September 09, 2012, 11:23:10 AM »

Just a random OT thing, but you think TotalBiscuit will do another WTF is... of Starfarer after Characters come in?

And a possibility of getting WAY too powerful in a system in one playthought but being this tiny thing in another?  Sounds promising. :)
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Talkie Toaster

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #627 on: September 09, 2012, 11:23:30 AM »

Assuming the player can never get all the skills and aptitudes (which I, for one, am in favor of) will it be possible to re-spec them?

This is a thorny question for me. I'm leaning towards "no, but yes if you edit the save file/turn on dev mode/use a cheat/some such". If you had a game with a fixed world (say, like Diablo, Torchlight, WoW, etc), then allowing respecs is a no-brainer. But if your character build is actually rooted in the game world - for example, say the number of outposts you can control is determined by a skill - then that's a problem.

Never mind that you could spec one way to do something you couldn't do with one build, then respec and do something else - what you've got then is a modified - and more awkward - version of "I've maxed out everything". Again, thorny, and works much better with a static world.
I think the Aptitude/Skills division makes Starfarer remarkably well-suited for respeccing though. The main reason to allow respecs is to let players change decisions they made before they fully understood the mechanical implications of their choice, and one of the main reasons to disallow them is to prevent players from essentially being able to redefine their character on the fly. If you let people respec their skills for a (large or small) fee but kept their aptitudes static then people can't use respecs to fundamentally change who their character *is*, but they can change the mechanical specifics of how that's expressed.

Of course yeah, that runs into problems with things like the # of outposts. In the case of outposts and other capped things it might make more sense to adopt the soft-cap approach; if you have more than X outposts, their upkeep costs increase (or production costs increase dramatically, or what have you). So whilst you can respec out of being an trading outpost magnate or high-tech industrialist after building up a giant network of markets or a huge manufacturing base, the reward you're gaining from them dramatically decreases and they may even become a liability.

In the case of things like speccing to gain OP, or have crews vet faster or what have you as long as there's a cost to respec then it just becomes an alternative way of paying for higher vet crew, or getting efficient schematics.
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Alex

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #628 on: September 09, 2012, 11:37:59 AM »

Spoiler
I think the Aptitude/Skills division makes Starfarer remarkably well-suited for respeccing though. The main reason to allow respecs is to let players change decisions they made before they fully understood the mechanical implications of their choice, and one of the main reasons to disallow them is to prevent players from essentially being able to redefine their character on the fly. If you let people respec their skills for a (large or small) fee but kept their aptitudes static then people can't use respecs to fundamentally change who their character *is*, but they can change the mechanical specifics of how that's expressed.

Of course yeah, that runs into problems with things like the # of outposts. In the case of outposts and other capped things it might make more sense to adopt the soft-cap approach; if you have more than X outposts, their upkeep costs increase (or production costs increase dramatically, or what have you). So whilst you can respec out of being an trading outpost magnate or high-tech industrialist after building up a giant network of markets or a huge manufacturing base, the reward you're gaining from them dramatically decreases and they may even become a liability.

In the case of things like speccing to gain OP, or have crews vet faster or what have you as long as there's a cost to respec then it just becomes an alternative way of paying for higher vet crew, or getting efficient schematics.
[close]

That makes a lot of sense. Whether the details work out is another question, but it seems promising. Aptitudes are broad strokes that even a new player is unlikely to get *that* wrong...  Still... could be the kind of thing where if you allow it at all, it'd be weird/frustrating not to allow it all the way. Well, I'll definitely keep that in  mind :)
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Horza

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #629 on: September 09, 2012, 12:30:40 PM »

Respeccing could be allowed but with a prohibitive enough cost that most of the time you'd just want to start a new game instead. That way if someone's attached to one particular character it's still possible but would only really be done for role playing reasons.
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