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News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Blog Posts  (Read 337517 times)

BombasticBattleship

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #330 on: April 03, 2012, 05:40:13 AM »

"We're over cap on living quarters, time to jettison the green crew into space."

That'd kind of make me wonder if a ship mod for turning cargo hold into living quarters would be a good idea. Especially since it's hard to get those troop transports xD
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RawCode

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #331 on: April 03, 2012, 07:26:20 AM »

this game dont need anything random driven, skill shoud not be replaced by random rolls, if weapon deals 100 damage it shoud always deal 100 damage if user managed to score hit.

if you go over ship OP by any means ship shoud suffer constant penalty to its stats, not random based.

ballistic weapons definely shoud suffer by ammo size and attack speed decrease, with more flux consumption.
energy weapons shoud deal less damage.
engines shoud provide less speed.

also more generic debuffs like more damage taken, less armor and hull intergity, every debuff shoud be obvious to user without anything random, if 1 OP overload have -10% engine speed, it shoud have this penalty at any scenario.

also viable penalty to reqire more creew, up to 100% of ship crew (medusa with X OP overload shoud consume full 50 crew as skeleton crew)

Debuffs shoud have exponent based effect, more OP you burrow more penalty you will take, at some point penalty shoud surely obsolete effects of anything user install on ship, no matter what.

Additional weapon over some OP shoud provide such penalty, that overal DPS decrease if this weapon is installed.


Also something like mountpoints overload will be great, ability to install large weapons at medium slot will allow hurge number of additional tactical solutions (with penalty like 2x OP cost, hurge debuff in turn speed and flux consumption to prevent "press x to win" options)

(medusa with single plasma cannot and nothing else due OP limit will be nice support ship, but due hurge penalty it will be able to shot only single time without venting, in this case overal DPS will be decreased compared to pair of blasters, but aniway user shoud be allowed to do something stupid as this)

(also vice versa, small weapons installed in medium mounts shoud have bonuses)
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Dreyven

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #332 on: April 03, 2012, 07:57:03 AM »

*Snip*

You did not understand the system at all, period.

You will not be able to go over OP.

But with the next update, you will need to stay in the limits of Fleet points, Cargo space, Crew and fuel or something bad will happen.
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cp252

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #333 on: April 05, 2012, 04:02:20 AM »

The first line of your post makes me cry.
This isn't chess. In real warfare unlucky things happen. Bullets so happen to hit critical components, etc.
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Cryten

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #334 on: April 05, 2012, 06:16:43 AM »

I think the enforcement of potential consequences for going over your limits is a good way to enforce the laws of the fleet as opposed to reduce it. When you go over your gonna want to quickly head for a base or face every increasing supplies costs untill something explodes.
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SkidWonderKid

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #335 on: April 05, 2012, 08:04:42 AM »

this game dont need anything random driven, skill shoud not be replaced by random rolls, if weapon deals 100 damage it shoud always deal 100 damage if user managed to score hit.

if you go over ship OP by any means ship shoud suffer constant penalty to its stats, not random based.

ballistic weapons definely shoud suffer by ammo size and attack speed decrease, with more flux consumption.
energy weapons shoud deal less damage.
engines shoud provide less speed.

also more generic debuffs like more damage taken, less armor and hull intergity, every debuff shoud be obvious to user without anything random, if 1 OP overload have -10% engine speed, it shoud have this penalty at any scenario.

also viable penalty to reqire more creew, up to 100% of ship crew (medusa with X OP overload shoud consume full 50 crew as skeleton crew)

Debuffs shoud have exponent based effect, more OP you burrow more penalty you will take, at some point penalty shoud surely obsolete effects of anything user install on ship, no matter what.

Additional weapon over some OP shoud provide such penalty, that overal DPS decrease if this weapon is installed.


Also something like mountpoints overload will be great, ability to install large weapons at medium slot will allow hurge number of additional tactical solutions (with penalty like 2x OP cost, hurge debuff in turn speed and flux consumption to prevent "press x to win" options)

(medusa with single plasma cannot and nothing else due OP limit will be nice support ship, but due hurge penalty it will be able to shot only single time without venting, in this case overal DPS will be decreased compared to pair of blasters, but aniway user shoud be allowed to do something stupid as this)

(also vice versa, small weapons installed in medium mounts shoud have bonuses)

You have some mediocre cookie cutter ideas. They lack finesse and a sense of uniqueness though. Also your blatant dictation of what should and shouldn't be is a bit overbearing and does not leave your ideas open to easy discussion.

I think the accident system going in has personality and finesse. It provides a sense of realism and character. It is a feature that steps away from the mediocre design theories that are so easily tossed into the stirring pot of modern day game creation and provides a sense of immersion in a game world with cause and effect.

It hints at a designer that is immersed in his creation, there is a universe being built here... not just a spaceship naval strategy simulator.
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cp252

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #336 on: April 05, 2012, 08:22:45 AM »

I wonder, skid, if you'd be this negative if Alex had made Rawcode's changes, and Rawcode had suggested the accident system. It's not an idea I like, but it's not terrible enough to be put down like -that-.
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Alex

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #337 on: April 05, 2012, 08:50:45 AM »

I think RawCode was not talking about the Accidents system at all, but rather the idea that was brought up of going over the OP limit, for the penalty of random weapon/engine malfunctions.

I also think he brings up some good points :)

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spcgreenman

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #338 on: April 05, 2012, 10:17:55 AM »

it would be nice if the capturing system became less random currently there is no way of making sure you capture a ship i would like for there to be a way to make sure like something you do in battle a special type of ship that disable other ships i dunno maybe you can make sure in battle and i just havent figured it out ^^ anyway would be nice to see something like this added it wouldnt be easy ofcourse to capture a ship should be fairly difficult but there should be a better way then just playing endless battles and hoping you get lucky
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Trylobot

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #339 on: April 05, 2012, 11:53:02 AM »

I reserve judgement on the accidents feature entirely until I get to play with it, because a lot depends on the probabilities of things happening and how damaging etc. Those are statistic numbers that I imagine are easily tweakable, and I further speculate that Alex will be tweaking them on and off for a while to come.

But I'm optimistic about what is a unique feature and glad that the limit will be "flexible." The alternative (standard) implementation of fleet size limits always feels frustratingly arbitrary, so this is refreshing.
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Nanostrike

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #340 on: April 05, 2012, 12:27:14 PM »

I think RawCode was not talking about the Accidents system at all, but rather the idea that was brought up of going over the OP limit, for the penalty of random weapon/engine malfunctions.

I also think he brings up some good points :)



I'm waiting until I can level up my character as an Engineering junkie and slap all the Mods I want on my ships!

Just curious, but how far off do you think character levelling is?  I'm really looking forward to how it affects things.
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Occams_Razor

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #341 on: April 05, 2012, 01:29:43 PM »

I think I have two comments. First, on predictability, and second, on fun.

1. A fleet admiral should be able to sit down and know what to expect if he loads his ships too heavy. The consequences of running without enough supplies are predicable (no repairs, right?) and the consequences of running with too many supplies should be reasonably predicable, too. Lower speed, maneuverability, extra fuel use are predictable. Having extra cargo cause your ballistic weapons to be less effective, for example, is not at all predictable.

2. Due to a variety of psychological factors, human beings do a bad job planning for random low-probability, high-impact events. As such, rare but huge accidents, like losing a whole ship, are just not going to be fun. It can be totally justified, it can be realistic, and it can be the player's own fault, but it's never going to make your average player happy. Unless by "ship" you mean "a fighter or two out of a squadron", I'd drop it. There's a really high risk it'll be unfun, even though it's a "consequence" of a player's decision. I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong in playtesting, though...

Just my 2 cents.

One question: Why wouldn't everyone run their ships at 149% all the time? There probably should be some minor, predictable, consequences.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 01:37:51 PM by Occams_Razor »
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weed33

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #342 on: April 05, 2012, 03:35:31 PM »

One question: Why wouldn't everyone run their ships at 149% all the time? There probably should be some minor, predictable, consequences.

Due to the additional supply costs

bills6693

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #343 on: April 05, 2012, 03:39:03 PM »

re: Occams_Razor I tend to agree, especially point 2. I mean, I am not saying players should be able to go as high over the limit as they want and the worst that happens is some cargo/fuel/crew fall off the ship, but losing a ship is something that players will hate and make the game unfun and seem unfair IMO (even tho it is fair). I'd say maybe there should be this accidents mechanic, but also a hard cap too, just before its getting to the 'losing ships' stage.

However, having read the blog, I do understand this is meant to deal with the problem of what if you lose a ship and now you're over the hard limit? I don't know but I guess maybe the player has to choose something to leave behind... its a hard one to work out what to do, but I think that losing a ship will make it unfun... :p
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icepick37

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #344 on: April 05, 2012, 03:42:50 PM »

but I think that losing a ship will make it unfun... :p
But it ONLY happens if you are outside the limits of what your fleet is supposed to handle. The ship loss scenario will ONLY ONLY happen if you are over fleet points by a significant margin.

That makes it your fault not the game's fault. This is just a different way of handling limits than a hard limit. It's more freeing, but more risky. It's easy to play with a hard limit as you can just self-police.
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“I [may] not agree with a word that you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”
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