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Author Topic: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6  (Read 60337 times)

keptin

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #75 on: May 09, 2012, 08:42:35 AM »

No, that's why the trendline was removed in v1.6, as too many people were making that assumption.  Ideally, your ship has a similar combat value to a vanilla ship of equal fleetpoints.  If you've got a destroyer that's as combat capable as a cruiser, at the very least it should be as costly (both fleetpoints and base price) as a comparable cruiser...if not more so, assuming its a smaller and more maneuverable target.

Outliers like this need to be play tested and balanced manually because the tool makes assumptions that fit 90% of ships, but fail to account for odd combinations.

FlashFrozen

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2012, 09:11:39 AM »

Only thing I can notice is that shield efficiency is what seems to break the combat effectiveness if you you set it to a low value, but shield arc has completely no effect on combat effectiveness, which mean you could have 1 deg 0.0 shield and it'll rate it as a ship better than 0.8 full 360 arc shield, which imo isn't exactly true in a real battle, but I guess that's for v1.7 to decide on what to do with shield arc ( which to me is VERY influential to a ships effectiveness ).
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keptin

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2012, 09:22:17 AM »

The lower the shield efficiency value, the higher the efficiency.  v1.6 should calculate it properly.

Ultimately, it's a tool to help modders ballpark figures, not a do-all one stop shop shibang it's a done deal.  The OP covers what the tool takes into account and there currently aren't any plans to expand it given that an all encompassing tool would be a PITA to create and only end up making people lazy in the long run.  Making things more accessible doesn't always yield better results.

harperrb

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #78 on: May 10, 2012, 06:05:36 PM »

this is awesome.

Late to the party, but its a good one none-the-less.

Thanks for putting this together.
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Avan

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #79 on: May 31, 2012, 02:52:55 AM »

:D This is very cool

I hope to give it a spin soon

Cosmitz

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #80 on: August 05, 2012, 02:20:56 AM »

Hm, i get "#NUME?" in price-related fields and in fleet/shield performance. To note, i did convert the file to Office 2000 format but that really shouldn't matter, plus, everything else works. Also, in Fleet combat value, the ship stays at the very bottom.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 02:23:32 AM by Cosmitz »
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keptin

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #81 on: August 05, 2012, 02:34:28 AM »

Be sure you're pasting the correct data into the corresponding rows as the order of things has changed with 0.53.

Cosmitz

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #82 on: August 05, 2012, 02:42:33 AM »

Wrote them in manually, i know, you're referring to the two new phase columns.
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keptin

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #83 on: August 05, 2012, 02:54:03 AM »

Maybe something broke on conversion, because it works fine for me in Excel 07.  It seems people have had success with Open Office too.  This tool is no longer being developed or supported, so I can only wish you best of luck in finding a solution.  Good luck!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 02:55:39 AM by keptin »
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #84 on: October 28, 2012, 01:52:17 PM »

It doesn't work. allot of corrupted/non functional data, could be my computer however, stuff like excel becomes corrupted if i start them up and they ruin other programs like notepad, but i'm pretty sure my faction is balanced. because whenever my largest fleet hits the HDF, both fleets take huge damage. just need to have similar stats on my first faction and its pretty much ready for release.

simply went with the idea that i have my largest ship as close as possible stats wise to the best vanilla ship in that "ship era"  say the paragon,

then 75-1000 decrease in hull HP, flux, armor, dissipation for every ship that is smaller with similar gaps in ship sizes, and like - or + 2.5 to 5 in ship speed/maneuver according to ship weight and all ships have similar shield strength.

for example, my Ship.CSV, capitals to fighters from top to bottom

Spoiler
Quote
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Siegfried,siegfried,Battleship,fortressshield,30,22500,1750,27500,,1200,575,25,15,10,15,5,4000,OMNI,120,0.2,0.6,,,500,1000,750,1500,25,50,25,225000,
Kyou,kyou,Battleship,highenergyfocus,28,21250,1625,25250,,1100,450,35,20,10,20,10,3250,OMNI,120,0.2,0.6,,,425,800,750,1500,25,50,20,195000,
Phoenix,phoenix,Heavy Battlecruiser,highenergyfocus,26,19500,1550,22550,,1000,375,35,20,10,25,15,2750,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,350,700,500,1000,25,25,20,175000,
Kishida,kishida,Light Battlecruiser,highenergyfocus,22,18750,1475,20500,,925,275,35,25,15,40,20,2250,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,250,500,325,475,10,47.5,25,135000,
Kurosaki,kurosaki,Light Battlecruiser,highenergyfocus,20,17500,1450,19750,,900,250,35,25,15,40,20,2000,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,250,500,325,475,10,47.5,25,125000,
Nexus,nexus,Carrier,drone_pd,20,16950,1300,18500,,825,250,40,30,20,45,25,2750,OMNI,220,0.2,0.6,,,250,500,325,475,10,47.5,30,115000,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Hawk,hawk,Advanced Heavy Cruiser,highenergyfocus,18,13500,1250,14500,,750,250,60,40,20,40,20,2000,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,175,240,275,375,10,37.5,15,85000,
Gintama,gintama,Pocket Cruiser,fortressshield,17,12500,1100,13500,,725,150,65,45,25,45,25,1850,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,145,220,275,375,10,37.5,10,75000,
Altima,altima,Advanced Cruiser,highenergyfocus,16,11000,950,12500,,675,225,70,50,30,45,25,1700,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,120,200,275,375,10,37.5,10,65000,
Santanamo,santanamo,Cruiser,drone_pd,15,10500,950,11000,,675,225,75,55,35,50,30,1625,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,120,200,275,375,10,37.5,10,55000,
Aerith,aerith,Light Cruiser,burndrive,15,9750,875,9750,,650,200,80,60,40,60,40,1000,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,120,200,275,375,10,37.5,10,52500,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Shibusen,shibusen,Advanced Heavy Destroyer,highenergyfocus,14,7250,750,7500,,625,120,65,45,25,30,20,600,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,80,120,140,200,7.5,30,5,45000,
Shinda,shinda,Advanced Destroyer,fortressshield,12,5750,600,6250,,500,150,75,70,45,45,20,475,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,60,120,150,275,10,27.5,10,35000,
Taiyou,taiyou,Light Carrier,drone_pd,10,5500,575,5500,,350,150,50,45,35,40,20,475,OMNI,220,0.2,0.8,,,80,140,225,125,5,50,30,32500,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Feather,feather,Gunship,displacer,8,2500,375,3750,,350,75,120,100,120,80,100,425,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,50,100,60,40,1,40,4,30000,
Artemis,artemis,Heavy Frigate,fortressshield,7,2150,375,3500,,325,50,120,100,120,80,100,375,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,40,80,60,40,1,40,4,27500,
Tornado,tornado,Frigate,displacer,6,1950,225,3000,,275,50,155,125,225,100,150,225,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,10,20,25,25,1,25,3,22500,
Whirlwind,whirlwind,Frigate,displacer,6,1950,225,3000,,275,50,155,125,225,100,150,225,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,10,20,25,25,1,25,3,22500,
Darius,darius,Frigate,drone_sensor,5,1575,175,2500,,225,50,200,150,225,175,150,200,OMNI,220,0.2,0.8,,,10,20,25,25,1,25,3,17500,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Masaki,masaki,Heavy Fighter,,,650,125,1000,,175,,125,150,175,150,200,30,OMNI,120,0.2,0.8,,,,,,,,,,,
Aeon,aeon,Missile Bomber,,,475,100,500,,100,,150,100,150,150,200,25,OMNI,120,0.2,1,,,,,,,,,,,
Evony,evony,torpedo Bomber,,,350,75,500,,100,,100,100,100,100,200,15,OMNI,120,0.2,1,,,,,,,,,,,
Code,code,Interceptor,,,200,50,100,,100,,250,225,250,150,225,5,NONE,,,1,,,,,,,,,,,
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Any pointers there? il gladly change the values further, they are up against the factions in Uomoz Corvus right now for testing. and i'm telling you =I some of those factions are not balanced properly. lotus conglomerate for example crushes every single fleet, modded or otherwise, but i think that's just his fleet sizes, because the ships are rather balanced themselves.

EDIT: noticed that some of the ships had to much hull and flux, so I've lowered them all. better now?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 02:44:03 AM by ValkyriaL »
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etherealblade

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2013, 04:40:00 AM »

Thank you for this wonderful contribution.! I needed this for my future mod. I love OP stuff...but...even I get bored of that, so this is the best medicine to bring life and challenge back to the game!
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Trylobot

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #86 on: October 15, 2013, 01:06:41 PM »

ValkyriaL, balancing a faction is not a task that you can just shove onto others at the bottom of someone else's thread. It's a major, work-intensive task that takes great patience and care. And it is never finished.

If you think you are done balancing, then you are certainly not done balancing. If you think you are not done balancing, you are doing it right. It's just this ongoing battle of constant small tweaking. You can only get closer and closer, but you never really get it 100% there.

Hell, look at Blizzard. And they've got staffers whose entire job it is to balance units.
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phyrex

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #87 on: October 15, 2013, 02:12:52 PM »

When was the last time this program was updated ?
Cause im wondering which one of this or codex would be best suited for balancing my mod and im kinda confused
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #88 on: October 15, 2013, 09:34:29 PM »

ValkyriaL, balancing a faction is not a task that you can just shove onto others at the bottom of someone else's thread. It's a major, work-intensive task that takes great patience and care. And it is never finished.

If you think you are done balancing, then you are certainly not done balancing. If you think you are not done balancing, you are doing it right. It's just this ongoing battle of constant small tweaking. You can only get closer and closer, but you never really get it 100% there.

Hell, look at Blizzard. And they've got staffers whose entire job it is to balance units.

Its just that, that comment is like 10 months old or more and i didn't know better back then =) my faction is far from done in the balancing department, and it will take the rest of my time here to get them so. ::)
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Trylobot

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Re: Ship BalanceSuite 5000 v1.6
« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2013, 10:38:40 AM »

Oh! I apologize Valk, I hopped into the thread because there was activity but didn't notice how old the comment I read actually was on its own. My bad!
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