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Author Topic: [0.9a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.85-RC3)  (Read 479835 times)
Amurka
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« Reply #630 on: February 03, 2014, 02:24:47 PM »

Yea, that's exactly what I'm saying. BlackRock frigates may be the best/fastest/most cost effective. But the capital ships have more firepower...and that firepower isn't even enough to get through. That's my point.
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HELMUT
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« Reply #631 on: February 03, 2014, 02:35:30 PM »

If you fight Neutrino ships in 1v1, you are doing it wrong. Also if you think you can overwhelm their defense trough brute force, you are also doing it wrong. No matter how much dakka you throw at them, their venting capacity make that even if you overload them, it's for a very short period of time.

Missiles and beams are very inefficient against Neutrino as they will block them with their shields (with the exception of the Tachyon lance which can snipe long Neutrino ships edges, a blind spot for the AI). Explosive weaponry are the way to go, packed on numerous smaller ships, you will slaughter them. If Antediluvians were updated to 0.6.2, i would say they are the hardest counter to Neutrino. Lot of small, weak ships with a lot of firepower. Carriers based fleets are pretty effective as well.

I have yet to see a vanilla balanced faction that can stand against Neutrino in a straight slugfest, perhaps the Nomad Gila Monster but even then it wouldn't be cost efficient.
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Sabaton
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« Reply #632 on: February 03, 2014, 02:58:27 PM »


I have yet to see a vanilla balanced faction that can stand against Neutrino in a straight slugfest, perhaps the Nomad Gila Monster but even then it wouldn't be cost efficient.

 Just wait until he whose name shall not be spoken finishes his mod.
 ( black and red boss ships )
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FlashFrozen
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« Reply #633 on: February 03, 2014, 06:13:31 PM »

In retrospective, Neutrino is probably in it's weakest state in it's existence as it only has received nerfs, with a sole exception of the jackhammer since the remodeled hull actually allows the ai to utilize it's main weaponry.

These ships aren't just powerful. They're clearly overpowered. Nearly every ship has it's own superweapons, combined with almost unbeatable shields and ridiculous flux dissipation.

I currently am running a game as the BlackRock faction, and I have some seriously powerful ships, that can whoop ass on most things. Yet when I toss even the FRIGATE sized ships of the Neutrino faction against my CAPITAL ships, they still put up a serious fight. The capital ships are in a whole different league. Even with a ship with 12 torpedoes, 2 Cains, and 2 Twin-barreled Railguns, as well as other KINETIC weaponry, it still takes everything I have to force their shields down at all, and I almost NEVER cause them to overload.

Those MIRV launchers that launch the Red glowing missiles that magically turn into 30 projectiles are way overpowered as well...allowing even tiny ships equipped with them to overwhelm even Dual Thunderstorm defences.

TLDR: Balance this please. We all understand how COOL it makes you feel to make a faction that can kick everything else's ass, but it really doesn't make for fun gameplay.

I'll say it like this, If you're using your capital ship to fight a neutrino capital ship, you'll lose 7 times out of 10 unless you have some massive range/ kiting ability.

The best method to beat them is to not be in a situation that is trading blow for blow.
Maneuverability is your best defence against the (Anti-Capital) firepower most Neutrino capitals use.
Swarms of smaller ships (or fighters/bombers those do pretty good) will beat out the defences.
Use a mirv launcher and you'll do a serious number on probably 80% of neutrino ships as the arc can't block all of the missiles.

I've already labelled it as overpowered so I'll only change them as I see fit Smiley

If you feel like making them weak, just change the Shield effiency to 0.6-1.0  Good Luck!

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Zaphide
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« Reply #634 on: February 03, 2014, 06:23:36 PM »

Use a mirv launcher and you'll do a serious number on probably 80% of neutrino ships as the arc can't block all of the missiles.

Yeah a MIRV, Annihilator Rocket's and explosive ballistic weapons are the go Smiley Just ignore the shields and take additional ships/fighters to be able to flank/surround effectively. Swarm tactics Smiley
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MesoTroniK
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« Reply #635 on: February 03, 2014, 10:40:13 PM »

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Doogie
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« Reply #636 on: February 03, 2014, 11:34:50 PM »

Yea, that's exactly what I'm saying. BlackRock frigates may be the best/fastest/most cost effective. But the capital ships have more firepower...and that firepower isn't even enough to get through. That's my point.
Nope. You missed it completely. Because the capital ships have "more firepower" means nothing. Blackrock ships are meant for strike tactics; to hit hard where it hurts. Flanking tactics work here. Last time I checked, using a Desdinova to flank was a hell of a lot easier than to use a Karkinos.
If you know how to play, Neutrino ships are easy prey.
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HELMUT
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« Reply #637 on: February 04, 2014, 07:03:14 AM »



Eh funny, i just thought about Exi ships being good against Neutrino due to their missiles circling around shields. Also, Cigen cannons.
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ValkyriaL
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« Reply #638 on: February 04, 2014, 07:05:39 AM »

shield penning weapons is a hard counter to neutrino (or anything using shields as their main def), so i guessed the cigen cannon as well as my ether would be very effective.
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Lopunny Zen
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« Reply #639 on: February 04, 2014, 11:51:30 AM »

dude ballistics dont do jack...like i said they have normal armor and the shields sponge the damage too much...even the ai has an idea where to point it and the allied ai has no idea how to fight it..they just plow ahead at the shields in vain. Why not have normal range and powered shields..this team is very unique as it is...ive never lost with this team and its easy to take on anything you want...it took me short time to take over the galaxy with this team...point is the shiled range may seem like the downside but they have as many ships as you(perhaps more) they have way more power and survivability...even the auto battle makes them win alot. Other then that the team is very cool looking and the unique weapons brings out their charm

Yes. Neutrino ships are very powerful if allowed to take repeated one-on-one fights. Valkyrians are the same as they bristle with firepower. Valkyrians take quite some time to dump flux and their shields are not terribly efficient, meaning the NPCs end up "running hot" quite a bit. Neutrino NPCs can be beaten with numbers as many of their ships focus their firepower in particular directions, usually to the front and their slim shields mean they cannot protect themselves against everything. I haven't played since the release of 0.6.1 as my craptop doesn't have the memory to support Ironclads anymore, but I assume juking Neutrino shields with missiles is still a thing. Maintaining pressure on Neutrino ships is paramount to defeating them because if they are allowed to pick their engagements, they almost always come out on top. OP, they are not. I've died quite a few times in L40 Unsungs of Doom from being too brazen and picking fights with several big ships at once. The Heg Def Fleet when they get all their Onslaughts on the field early, which they sometimes do, quickly makes a mess of most Neutrino ships because they are perfect for maintaining pressure by burning into range.

you are playing them wrong then..ive played them and never once was i in any danger....even worse if you carrier fleet them...they are unstoppable once you master them...I mean the antedilluvians can get them but they are in progress...plus they still win most of the auto matches.....the one thing that is even bad about neutrinos is the super bomber...its ai doent launch the bomb at all in 96% of battles...it just lumbers about trying to dodge small things

Edited to fix the quote tags -- SeaBee
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 07:47:48 PM by SeaBee » Logged
Piemanlives
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« Reply #640 on: February 04, 2014, 07:31:09 PM »

What exactly are you trying to tell us Lopunny? Quoting an entire conversation doesn't help you know.
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This is called me throwing my missile swarm at you, and by swarm I mean massacre, and by missiles... I actually just mean missiles, there's actually not much to it really.
ValkyriaL
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« Reply #641 on: February 04, 2014, 08:07:02 PM »

He is trying to tell us that a modded faction that isn't supposed to be balanced in the first place isn't vanilla balanced but SHOULD be according to him.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 08:09:31 PM by ValkyriaL » Logged
Piemanlives
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« Reply #642 on: February 04, 2014, 09:39:19 PM »

Ah, so Heresy protocol then?
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This is called me throwing my missile swarm at you, and by swarm I mean massacre, and by missiles... I actually just mean missiles, there's actually not much to it really.
Silver Silence
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« Reply #643 on: February 05, 2014, 02:39:24 AM »

you are playing them wrong then..ive played them and never once was i in any danger....even worse if you carrier fleet them...they are unstoppable once you master them...I mean the antedilluvians can get them but they are in progress...plus they still win most of the auto matches.....the one thing that is even bad about neutrinos is the super bomber...its ai doent launch the bomb at all in 96% of battles...it just lumbers about trying to dodge small things

Edited to fix the quote tags -- SeaBee

Don't tell me I'm playing anything wrong in a singleplayer sandbox game. Just don't.

A carrier fleet of Schwarms is hilarious to watch and I believe it was one of the bosses in Uz's Corvus though I think the bosses were scrapped. Is it effective? Eh.. not really. The damage is piddly. Many of the fighters still have the Neutrino train-on-ice handling which puts them at a disadvantage. Those scout drohne wings have a turning radius about the size of a Dominator. The Floh is okay, but if I remember correctly, the beamer is locked in a forward position and has good range but a cruiser or capital will still poke it before it's in range. Floh still has the train-on-ice handling. The super heavy bomber. I used it once. Just the once. I repaired it and stashed it away in the abandoned storage after watching it die due to it's wings literally being clipped till it died. The narrow Neutrino shield does not scale well on a ship so small and with such a wide profile.

I don't think Antediluvians are even a work in progress. Most if not all the mods are a work in progress until their authors drop them, at which point they can be considered done. Pretty sure the Antediluvians can be considered done. According to the OP of the Antediluvians, Erick Doe last updated them for 0.54. I think they were supported for a while longer in Uz's Corvus but have since been trimmed due to bloat.

They win most automatic matches because they are statistically superior to many of their competitors. And the autoresolve is a numbers game. I'm sure those results would turn out quite differently if autoresolves were instead battles played at very high speed. But really, everyone learned that they're good in autoresolve "back in the day" when Neutrino ships had a shield efficiency of about 0.16-0.2 thanks to natural efficiency and veterancy which apparently gave ships a massive edge in the autoresolve. 0.01 efficiency with a 1 degree shield rolls over ships in autoresolve though that would never work in a battle.


Yes, gud ships are gud. They are meant to be gud.
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c plus one
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« Reply #644 on: February 05, 2014, 01:26:47 PM »


I have yet to see a vanilla balanced faction that can stand against Neutrino in a straight slugfest, perhaps the Nomad Gila Monster but even then it wouldn't be cost efficient.

 Just wait until he whose name shall not be spoken finishes his mod.
 ( black and red boss ships )

Assuming that person could ever stop willingly posting something or other that gets himself nuked off the site, that is. that person seemed to have a passion for self-destruction.

It's not as if we have any shortage of great ships & great techs without the vaporware that person used to tease us with. *shrug* Give me neutrino any old day; all the fun, none of the drama!
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Quote from: Lopunny Zen
you are playing them wrong then..

Don't tell me I'm playing anything wrong in a singleplayer sandbox game. Just don't.
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