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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.86-RC3)  (Read 989359 times)

BrickedKeyboard

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.7)
« Reply #540 on: October 01, 2013, 11:01:43 AM »

Flash, while you are reworking balance, I wanted to comment that some of the 30 supply/day capitals are not worth 30 supplies/day.  One of them is the freighter : it only has the cargo capacity of 2- 5 supply per day freighters, and it does not have the firepower of a 20/supply day capital ship from the vanilla game like the Paragon. 

Furthermore, some of the 30 supplies/day capitals just can't hold a candle to two 15 supply/day onslaughts.

Of course, the Unsung is in a class of it's own.  45/supplies day is a bargain, and at that price, it's the only one of your capital ships that is even worth the supply cost.
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FlashFrozen

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.725)
« Reply #541 on: October 02, 2013, 05:41:20 PM »

I'd like some opinions on a test version, it probably is just plain broken, but compared to the current, I wouldn't know any better :P

First link is a slightly different method of handling flux, Give it a spin and see what it's like, I can probably say it's not balanced but I can work down easier than working up.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/4c8x7418nxbjscc/Neutrino+corp+1.725+Rebal.zip

Second link is a fairly untouched version updated to handle 0.6.1a

http://www.mediafire.com/download/7hw34gf8cwppy4m/Neutrino+corp+1.725.zip
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 05:59:22 PM by FlashFrozen »
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valefore

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.725)
« Reply #542 on: October 05, 2013, 04:21:03 PM »

First link is a slightly different method of handling flux, Give it a spin and see what it's like, I can probably say it's not balanced but I can work down easier than working up.

I didn't play that long but I want to write down my opinions so far.

So from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong), you greatly increased the flux capacity and greatly decreased the flux dissipation rate for most ships, which reversed the Neutrino's uniqueness in handling flux into the opposite method. The shield efficiency was also lowered to 1.0. This maintains the Neutrino's endurance in face-to-face combat, but once they hit their limit in flux, they are sitting ducks, especially because they are slow and it takes so long to vent the enormous amount of flux.


I think this definitely makes the Neutrino weaker, especially in prolonged combat because eventually flux vent would outweigh flux cap. Because of this, they become much more susceptible to hit and run strategies. It should also put a strain on Neutrino ships on always going for crazy dps weapons instead of flux-efficient weapons.

But I'm personally against this idea because it seems to make gameplay bland. Because Neutrino are often slow and have low maneuvarability, it's hard for them to strategically use this way of handling flux. Most of the time, I found myself trying to close in and throw all I've got before I hit high flux or the enemy escaped. If the enemy was enduring, I'd just fire everything-vent-fire everything-vent until the fight was over. Currently, I think this is the best strategy to fight regardless of the situation, since fleeing and venting in between is not feasible due to slow speeds.
On the side of the opponent, I didn't feel a need to go around the shields as I did before, because it was easier for me to kill off Neutrino ships after they hit max flux and were vulnerable rather than to try to kill them faster when they could still hurl weapons at me (similar to fighting an onslaught or conquest).


On the other hand, before I had to be careful with handling flux because of the low flux capacity (although this became trivial with larger ships that had useful flux caps). If I fired high flux weapons too much while fighting, I could instantly hit max flux and become overloaded. This is why I thought Neutrino frigates weren't that strong because despite their high shield efficiency, they overloaded very quickly with ship-system and weapon usage while they also lacked the speed advantage of other frigates. Coupled with the small shields, I had to be cautious of when to dive in and pick a fight and when to silence weapons and vent flux.



I personally think the original method in handling flux (high vent, low cap) was better because it requires strategy to use effectively. I also think it's unique since I don't know any other faction that uses high vent, low cap like Neutrino does. But I guess it would be harder to balance since most of the time, high vent=high fire power and defense...
Anyway, What do you think about lowering the flux capacity for larger ships even more, like halving? That would put an op strain on weapons and burst flux usage considerations, and also increase the chance of overload, which are most of the weaknesses of Neutrino frigates.
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FlashFrozen

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.725)
« Reply #543 on: October 05, 2013, 05:31:12 PM »

The idea of that was the ships would have a full vent time between 15-25 seconds at full flux, but basically they have such huge reserves that attacking them from the shielded part would be as tough as before, but this has the side effect of making the ships never able to use 0 flux boost most of the time lol,

With the lowered flux, they have to worry about incoming damage and damage output using flux.

I've also have another rebal with 0.4 shields but the same flux dissipation, slightly less effective capacity but more actual reserves. but took away most of the vent bonus ( so it's barely more than normal passive dissipation lol )

By having too low a flux capacity, you actually can't fire a whole lot of energy weapons at the same time, indeed it is pretty hairy in a jackhammer/lathe/singularity, everytime you fire, if you get hit by something, you very well could overload.

The speed at which neutrino could dissipate your efforts was probably the key problem, and it's damn hard to maintain that nice tipping point of balanced vs different.
I personally prefer different, space hipsters ahoy!

Though on the bright side I did manage to finally get a neutrino system in, but no idea the scripts for the fleets anymore they just break everything. :D
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NightmareOwl

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.725)
« Reply #544 on: October 08, 2013, 01:15:41 PM »

Quick question, how to get the falken ? don't know where to start looking for it
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Sidie Hawkton

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.725)
« Reply #545 on: October 08, 2013, 05:46:21 PM »

Although I haven't tried the rebalanced version, I've been a longtime fan of how Neutrino plays.  The banshee is my fav capital, despite the supply costs.  Of course, I was boosting speed with unstable & augmented engines all that time...  Haven't tried much with the new restrictions.  Still, not only do the ships generally more limited firing arcs and flux plan give a great strategic feel, but they fit to my playstyle well.

Only thing that made them OP for me was the ability to mount other mod weapons... highly efficient weapons of unbalanced joy.  NIHIL!!!  or Zorg...
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FlashFrozen

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.725)
« Reply #546 on: October 08, 2013, 08:51:20 PM »

Quick question, how to get the falken ? don't know where to start looking for it

If the Falken has peaked your interest, I suggest being on the lookout for some (not)Suspicious Lone fleets.

High Value Technology TestBeds are usually kept within Corporate Hands rather than Corporate Brochures :P

Although I haven't tried the rebalanced version, I've been a longtime fan of how Neutrino plays.  The banshee is my fav capital, despite the supply costs.  Of course, I was boosting speed with unstable & augmented engines all that time...  Haven't tried much with the new restrictions.  Still, not only do the ships generally more limited firing arcs and flux plan give a great strategic feel, but they fit to my playstyle well.

Only thing that made them OP for me was the ability to mount other mod weapons... highly efficient weapons of unbalanced joy.  NIHIL!!!  or Zorg...

Thanks for the kind words, most people do see to like the Banshee :D Though I'm not sure of the version you're using, but in the current version supplies are really low for standby, but repair costs are pretty hefty. :P
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NightmareOwl

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.725)
« Reply #547 on: October 09, 2013, 12:26:00 AM »

Ok i'll keep an eye out :) but, it's possible to find it even if not representing neutrino on Exerelin?
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Ishman

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.725)
« Reply #548 on: October 09, 2013, 12:13:48 PM »

I'm quite enjoying the low supplies and immense repair costs in the current version; though the almost universal 1% repair rate a day means anything but the most minor scratches require a pit stop at a station, I guess this is supposed to entice you into keeping a repair gantry equipped vessel in the fleet?
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BigNose

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.725)
« Reply #549 on: October 10, 2013, 09:54:17 AM »

I really like the style of the neutrino ships, I play them in Exerelin almost all the time!
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.725)
« Reply #550 on: October 10, 2013, 09:58:17 AM »

I don't like them in that sense, its way to easy if you play as them, fighting them makes the game much more interesting.
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FlashFrozen

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75)
« Reply #551 on: October 10, 2013, 11:14:52 PM »

Added a system, may continue tweaking in v1.8 but for now, test and see if it's any decent, lol.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/k3aymptcko47rpr/Neutrino+corp+1.75.zip

Code
Version 1.75
-Lowered shield efficiency of almost all ships from 0.2 => 0.4
-(Slightly under)Doubled Flux Capacity of most ships
-Increased day to day usage a tid bit, most ships increased repair cost.
-Added Corona Australis and Exelion
-Readjusted station stock.


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TimeDiver

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75)
« Reply #552 on: October 11, 2013, 12:50:48 AM »

Added a system, may continue tweaking in v1.8 but for now, test and see if it's any decent, lol.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/k3aymptcko47rpr/Neutrino+corp+1.75.zip

I was wondering why the Exelion star system wasn't showing up at all on the hyperspace map, and well...

Not sure if deliberate or not, but line 21 of 'data\scripts\world\systems\Exelion.java' is currently:

StarSystemAPI system = sector.createStarSystem("");

whereas it should be written as:

StarSystemAPI system = sector.createStarSystem("Exelion");

Addendum: Then again, considering what is there... maybe it's best left out for now.

Yikes...
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 01:02:04 AM by TimeDiver »
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Piemanlives

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75)
« Reply #553 on: October 11, 2013, 12:56:04 AM »

Will this break saves or not?
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This is called me throwing my missile swarm at you, and by swarm I mean massacre, and by missiles... I actually just mean missiles, there's actually not much to it really.

FlashFrozen

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75)
« Reply #554 on: October 11, 2013, 03:55:00 AM »

Added a system, may continue tweaking in v1.8 but for now, test and see if it's any decent, lol.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/k3aymptcko47rpr/Neutrino+corp+1.75.zip

I was wondering why the Exelion star system wasn't showing up at all on the hyperspace map, and well...

Not sure if deliberate or not, but line 21 of 'data\scripts\world\systems\Exelion.java' is currently:

StarSystemAPI system = sector.createStarSystem("");

whereas it should be written as:

StarSystemAPI system = sector.createStarSystem("Exelion");

Addendum: Then again, considering what is there... maybe it's best left out for now.

Yikes...

*snicker whisper snicker*  ;)

Will this break saves or not?


It may break saves, but I personally can't tell , so just keep a backup if it worries you, lol.
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