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[WooksterRu]

I find it pretty frustrating seeing complete doom stacks of AI fleets going about their business without the need of any support Prometheus fuel carriers or civilian crew transports. This gets even worse when the game spawns 3 stacks of fleets fielding nothing but capitals as bounty fleets when playing Nexerelin. I'm sorry for the rant but my actual question is will this hopefully be addressed later in the games life span or maybe a community mod to make it workable ?

[Igncom1]

I could see different fleet ranges being applied, and thus a tax of support ships, depending on the fleets mission.

A big planetary defence fleet is never operating too far from port, and so is fine as is.

But a system wide patrol, or hyperspace patrol is going to need a lot more based on the sizes of the ships and the whole fleet size.

[WooksterRu]

I completely agree, and seeing each faction Capital core world having a Capital fleet patrolling its system would be amazing to mitigate pirate decivilization, But seeing them spawn and being sent as bounty hunters or plantery invasions with no logistical support is a real slap in the face when I look at myself having to constantly think about how far i should travel before restocking.

Edit: The Unique faction leader portraits should command a top tier fleet for their faction above their Capital world instead of being the administrator. this would be cool idea for allowing faction leader assassination attempts at the end game.

[Histidine]

Next Starsector version, fleets that reach the size limit will get stronger by adding officers instead of upsizing everything to capitals. I think fleets may be also getting smaller in general, but not sure.

(I should state that Nexerelin doesn't change bounty fleets, and no in the existing modiverse should consist of literally 100% capitals, not even the notoriously bloated bounty hunter fleets in Vayra's Sector)

[Nafensoriel]

Technically these are governmental assets so its not absurd to think they have some kind of logistics train beyond what you as a single commander might have access to. I know this isn't what we visually see but it isn't absurd to think it exists anyway.

Id agree more for some new ships being added to vanilla that were centered around the "fleet support" role ala Shepard but militarized. Would make the core battles a bit more realistic?

[Dragoth]

Yeah it certainly needs to be fixed or adjusted. More A.I interactions with the economy having to purchase fuel and supplies would be welcomed.

[Sandor057]

Although I'm not sure that would be the right approach, you could have some hardish limitations or necessities on taking on logistics ships. I have thought on two things, the first a bit more restrictive.

1. After reaching a certain number of ships (adjusted for ship size), the AI would be required to have X number of cargo, Y number of crew and Z number of fuel ships. I'm not certain this could be implemented in a fun way though, so just an idea.

2. Not ship numbers but supply recovery costs, fuel use and crew requirements are checked. And the AI is not required to take specific kinds of support ships, but to have a specific number of maximum cargo and fuel storage capacity.
To illustrate it, here's an example:
- the player has 10 ships, total supply recovery cost of all of them is 320, fuel/lightyear cost is 200
- there is a flat requirement of 5 times total storage capacity of the full recovery cost of the fleet and a 3 times fuel/lightyear capacity, which could be reached in any conceivable way (ships could be crammed full with extended cargo holds and auxiliary fuel tanks).

So, what do you guys think?

[Histidine]

Supply use/fuel for AI fleets is not going to be simulated because that consumes performance for a 'feature' the player won't see until something goes visibly wrong. It's up to whoever spawns the fleets (vanilla or a mod) to make the fleet look like it has enough cargo/fuel capacity to support itself for its given mission.

e.g. I just rechecked Nex's spawning of invasion etc. fleets and found that there's a bug in the tanker calculation, and the specified values for logistics ships should be higher based on how they're converted to actual ships

[SonnaBanana]

Supply use/fuel for AI fleets is not going to be simulated because that consumes performance for a 'feature' the player won't see until something goes visibly wrong. It's up to whoever spawns the fleets (vanilla or a mod) to make the fleet look like it has enough cargo/fuel capacity to support itself for its given mission.

e.g. I just rechecked Nex's spawning of invasion etc. fleets and found that there's a bug in the tanker calculation, and the specified values for logistics ships should be higher based on how they're converted to actual ships

Finite logistics for AI fleets aren't necessary, limits and maluses based to number of logistical ships in AI fleets are.

[sector_terror]

I'm of two minds. Histidane is right in saying that making this an active component would be a performance nightmare. Imagine every, single, fleet, having to run the same calculations as you do while moving even while you stand still across the ENTIRE universe. It be a nightmare just on the calculations alone. Don't get me started on what you'd have to do to the AI to have their patching adjust for remaining fuel and storms. The new update helps the storm issue but if they're tight with supplies.....and this would effect looting which would effect operating costs of combat as well.

I think I need to take back my two lines. The whole point of this is to force travel to be limited and keep your movement between systems a constant test of value. There a risk/reward to dodging storms or running through them(or moving slowly and using more daily supplies vs raw speed for loss of fuel in the new update). It also doesn't challenge the AI one bit since they have no fail state to risk and make no profit to potentially gain. It offer nothing but inconsistent wild loot which makes the already expensive combat costs have no consistent mitigating reward, with no really interaction with the AI given they have nothing to lose in this system.

[Megas]

If I need to bring multiple supertankers and superfreighters to support my multi-battleship fleet for a round trip across the sector, I expect NPC fleets to do the same (if they need to travel to one of my fringe colonies).  No more 29 warship (with 10 caps and 19 cruisers) plus token Dram/Phaeton nonsense.

No need for exact calculations, just wing it that results in something believable or plausable.

[Sandor057]

I do not mean for AI fleets to have to actually calculate the amount of current fuel or supply they have. Calculating how much supply and fuel they need for X distance travelled, or Y amount of days for a patrol should be enough. Meaning that the system does not have to actually keep track of their resources, but only has to make a check once they are deployed.
Something like making a calculation, that if a specific amount of ships are going somewhere, then what would the cost be in supply + fuel to make a retour trip. Or, for a patrol, making a calculation, that if the patrol was travelling for, say, 10 days in hyperspace, then how many supplies would that be, considering standard speed is used, and how much fuel.

Maybe it doesn't make sense though. Still, something like this would fix pirate raids from one to the other side of the sector. Same for mods' fleets.

[Flying Dice]

Oddly, if I remember correctly, you can "fix" the entire-fleet-of-capitals issue by increasing the AI fleet cap (not deployment limit, the maximum number of ships per fleet). This causes them to be filled out with larger numbers of smaller ships in place of some of the caps.

Although the AI fuel/supply situation isn't exactly in line with the player's, some of that is due to how most AI fleets just sit in/fly between core sector worlds. Only bounty fleets in outlying systems are really egregious since they don't generally have support networks.