Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: General Thoughts from a new player  (Read 3947 times)

123456789

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
General Thoughts from a new player
« on: November 08, 2020, 02:32:32 AM »

Just gonna vomit my opinions about the game in no real order.

Early game is fun. Exploring, smuggling, fighting. Lots to do, nothing holding you back besides the size/power of your "fleet". I use the quotation marks because, at best, you only ever control a relatively minor and inconsequential amount of ships. Even in the late game, how much you can directly control/deploy is unsatisfying. And impractical.

Finally got to the point of setting up colonies and.... this is where the game completely falls apart. At this point, you do nothing but defend your colonies. No matter your standing with other factions, they will non-stop attack you. Tried to start another new colony, instantly attacked by about 30 capital ships +100 other assorted ships. 0 chance of me ever defending against it. And this is from the 'pirates'. With this kind of power and these amounts of resources, how do they not own the entire sector? And they are attacking from a system 35 light years away. Basically half the sector. And this is endless at this point. Pirates and Luddic path mostly, but the other factions send fleets endlessly as well. And the fact that they can send 3 Armadas when you can only control your own single fleet is annoying as well. Why do the AI factions have the ability to field such drastically larger forces? Why can't I created multiple fleets and order them to follow/support my main fleet?

Your standing with any given faction means nothing. They still attack. Worst is the Hegemony. For some reason they have the right to inspect any system/colony they want and take what you have. I know you can order your ships to fight them, or bribe them. But why can they do this in the first place? As far as I understand, the sector is every man for himself. Why does this faction get special privileges to act as a centralized government/police force when they are more or less on equal footing with everyone else?

Not to mention the suicidal attacks. Once the pirates target a system they will attack it endlessly until you destroy their base. But, I thought pirates were in it for profit? In some cases they turn into suicidal zealots, willing to die for nothing. I'm referring to having a system with 2 or more colonies with fully upgraded spacestations/patrol buildings. The pirate raids never win as far as I can tell, yet they still have unlimited resources to endlessly send armadas full of capital ships. I could understand this from actual zealots, the Luddics and whatnot, but the pirates, I would think, should be less willing to mindlessly throw their lives away with 0 chance at any profit to be had.

Forget trying to do the story quest. I'll spend weeks traveling to and destroying outlying pirate/luddic bases, only to have more pop up elsewhere.

Can't remember how many times I had to restart because I ran out of supplies flying in tiny circles trying to catch a bounty target. As far as I can tell, interdiction is useless for these scenarios. By the time the pulse goes off the target is either out of range, or, if they do the caught by it, too far away to catch even if they can't burn.

Probably the most annoying aspect of this game is the lack of an auto save feature. When you can instantly lose everything you have just by jumping into a system, there should be some kind of auto save going on. Also, saving in general is annoying. Why not just allow the creation of save files instead of using this goofy 'create copy' or whatever?

The lack of a respec option is also highly annoying. With the use of alpha cores, the colony management skills are 100% useless. This along with a few other minor issues basically guarantee that you will have to restart at some point, which is just poor game design.

All in all, early game is fun - aside from the constant possibility of losing everything with 0 recourse. Late game is an endless, unfun, repetitive slog of whack-a-mole.


I'm sure some of this has to do with the limitations of PC's, especially when the development first started. But it's 2020 now. If you want to keep the game accessible to any budget system, fine. But at least put options to enable/disable autosave, and to have it so the player can actually create/control fleets of equal size that get thrown at them endlessly.
Logged

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2991
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2020, 02:57:03 AM »

A lot of your concerns will be taken care of in the next release (should be Soon™-ish). Fleets in general will be smaller, so no more ridiculous pirate armadas with 10 Atlases. Expeditions will also be toned down, since all of these together currently make the whole endgame, they are only placeholder for now. With new enemies and more stuff to do, expect the current "whack-a-mole" gameplay to be drastically reduced. Respec will also be a thing with the new reworked skill system.

And I completely agree with the pirates being super suicidal, it's like they got mixed up with Luddic Path. I mean they're the ones who ask you money before attacking! Bit weird isn't it. Hopefully this gets changed somehow.

Finally autosave, which has been brought up multiple times, doesn't really work here since the game would have to pause to save and that would interrupt the gameplay. And if you make it so it saves in larger intervals, then it defeats the whole point of autosave, you'd still get stuck in bad situations. Closest thing we have is an Autosave mod which reminds you to save. Not trying to insult those who suggest this feature but quicksaving is just one press of a button. Maybe I played too much old RPGs but I never relied on autosaves, as it screwed me up more times than just manually deciding when's the best time to quicksave.

EDIT: Also, just imagine autosave with 20 or more mods, the horror.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 02:58:58 AM by Grievous69 »
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

SCC

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4142
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2020, 04:12:25 AM »

Your standing with any given faction means nothing. They still attack. Worst is the Hegemony. For some reason they have the right to inspect any system/colony they want and take what you have. I know you can order your ships to fight them, or bribe them. But why can they do this in the first place? As far as I understand, the sector is every man for himself. Why does this faction get special privileges to act as a centralized government/police force when they are more or less on equal footing with everyone else?
The privilege comes from beating everyone else into agreeing that they have the privilege. It would be nice if there were inspections to NPC colonies, too, so that the player has the idea that Hegemony will do that to them as well. Another warning, that you're an upstart and factions will grind you into the dirt if you upset them, would be good to have when trying to create a colony.

Can't remember how many times I had to restart because I ran out of supplies flying in tiny circles trying to catch a bounty target. As far as I can tell, interdiction is useless for these scenarios. By the time the pulse goes off the target is either out of range, or, if they do the caught by it, too far away to catch even if they can't burn.
I typically have no issue with getting bounty fleets to fight me, it might be that you're going for ones too small, maybe. When it comes to interdiction pulse, I find it more convenient to sneak up to the bounty while going dark, get in range of interdiction pulse and pulse the bounty, then catch it with emergency burn.
Also, you do turn transponder off when going after bounties, right?

Arcagnello

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1011
  • Arguably Heretical, Definetly Insane
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2020, 04:55:46 AM »

Grievous and SCC said everything important, but I'll add some stuff regarding what I also think is the weakest aspect of Vanilla i.e. Pirates:

Vanilla has a maximum fleet size of 30 for both you and the enemy, but I am pretty sure armadas in general are the only vanilla case where that limit can be exceeded, wich is made even worse by the fact there's just a lot of Atlas Mk.II spam, wich is only worth 20FleetPoints and can field double large ballistic with Accelerated Ammo Feeder and two additional large missile slots. It's more of less designed to counter ships that can't close the distance fast enough to kill it and both its most effective variants (Double Gauss Cannon+Double Hurricane MIRV and Double Hellbore Cannon+Double Squall MLRS) appear regularly in fleets with 20 of them.

The standard approach against Pirates wich is being aggressive and exploit your fleet's better flux stats and shields will only have your ships push into a wall of missiles and get overwhelmed. Dealing with multiple enemy armadas at a time is, however, reliably achievable and without losses.

The first fleet composition that I've found to work really well is a force that has incredibly missile proof capitals with Integraded Point Defence AI (Onslaughts, Legions, Paragons) at the front to recieve the entirety of the enemy assault while accompanying carriers (Herons, Drovers, Astrals, Condors) combine both fighters (Broadswords) and carpet bombers (Piranhas) to both overwhelm and obliterate enemies focused on your capitals with ease.

The second fleet composition revolves around fielding a very mobile strike force that will dilute the enemy's firepower across many, hard to kill frigades (Centurions, Scarabs, Wolfs and so on) while other, bigger but still incredibly mobile Cruisers and Battlecruisers (Falcons, Eagles, Conquests, Odisseys a d Auroras just to name a few) tear the scattered enemy apart with both focus fire and devastating, pinpoint long range firepower. This force is by far the most effective at dealing with a much bigger enemy fleet than yours forcing a very disadvantageous FP deployment compared to the enemy. This fleet will be able to quickly and effectively deal it's 100FP worth of enemy ships getting destroyed/disabled/retreating and then just fully retreat before even the frigades get into CR degradation to then just re-engage again and again until the enemy is forced into a hasty retreat and you've achieved complete victory.

I always pictured Pirates as suicidal maniacs in a desperate chase of fat stacks of credits, but what Grievous said is once again hitting the nail on the head. They feel overly aggressive, especially when compared to both Luddic Path and (to a smaller degree) Luddic Church.

The way I'd fix this even further than what the upcoming patch is going to do is considerably modifiying the ship lost treshold at wich pirates retreat from battles. A purely opportunistic array of pirates should quickly decide to cut its losses when they realize your fleet is not the easy prey they believed it was at the beginning of the battle. They are not suicidal crusaders, this change should more accurately mirror their nature of opportunistic "space hyenas" more than any fleet composition change would.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 05:02:10 AM by Arcagnello »
Logged
Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.
The therapist removed my F5 key.

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12156
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2020, 05:25:26 AM »

Pirates behave more like zombies in a zombie apocalypse.  Like zombies, they never truly die, and I frequently call them zombie pirates.  The worst part about them is they attack the core worlds too, and core worlds have insufficient defenses to repel raids.  Core worlds can decivilize after repeated pirate raids if ignored.
Logged

123456789

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2020, 10:55:02 AM »

Thanks for the responses. Some good advice, and hope for some changes that would address some of my concerns.

The one hill I'm willing to die on is the autosave.

Quote
Finally autosave, which has been brought up multiple times, doesn't really work here since the game would have to pause to save and that would interrupt the gameplay.

Most games pause to save. And If it's autosaving on jumps into/out of systems, the interruption would be negligible. I'm running unmodded now, but I had a save with about 10 mods on it and noticed little to no difference in save times. I've seen one response on a thread here somewhere with someone complaining that 'not everyone has a super computer'. I did spend a decent chunk of change on my computer, but it's hardly a super computer. A decent SSD/NVME drive and processor and it should mostly be a non-issue.

Either way, just want to say thanks again. Sometimes people get very defensive about stuff like this, and I've gotten nothing but civil responses. Very hopeful for the final release, maybe I'll just take a break until then.
Logged

Igncom1

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1496
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2020, 11:09:11 AM »

I am still 110% for an autosave feature being in the base game and absolutely cannot FATHOM why it shouldn't be.
Logged
Sunders are the best ship in the game.

IradT

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2020, 11:35:41 AM »

Thanks for the responses. Some good advice, and hope for some changes that would address some of my concerns.

The one hill I'm willing to die on is the autosave.

Quote
Finally autosave, which has been brought up multiple times, doesn't really work here since the game would have to pause to save and that would interrupt the gameplay.

Most games pause to save. And If it's autosaving on jumps into/out of systems, the interruption would be negligible. I'm running unmodded now, but I had a save with about 10 mods on it and noticed little to no difference in save times. I've seen one response on a thread here somewhere with someone complaining that 'not everyone has a super computer'. I did spend a decent chunk of change on my computer, but it's hardly a super computer. A decent SSD/NVME drive and processor and it should mostly be a non-issue.

Either way, just want to say thanks again. Sometimes people get very defensive about stuff like this, and I've gotten nothing but civil responses. Very hopeful for the final release, maybe I'll just take a break until then.

Slap on some mods, and go to cycle 215+, there it becomes a crawl.
Logged

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7214
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2020, 05:31:15 PM »

Welcome to the forum! I have high hopes for the next version in making the post-colony gameplay smoother, though I've never really ran into the enemy super fleet issues other people have encountered. It also usually takes many cycles for the other factions to attack, and the player can pretty safely have a profitable colony that only suffers faction expeditions a few times a cycle. It is very annoying when an expedition pops up and forces the player to fly all the way across the sector though. Its a little counter intuitive since AI cores are loot, but there's really no reason to use them if you don't want to fight the Hegemony.

Pirates attack much more frequently though and respawn very quickly: they are obnoxious if the player is not popping their bases for the bounty profits. I'm happy this is getting tones down.

Autosave would be really really bad. I have a decent computer (with a very good SSD) and saving takes several seconds at minimum. Getting interrupted like that every time I transition in or out of a system or interact with a station would be really obnoxious. Its... not hard to just hit f5 and save every once in a while.
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12156
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2020, 06:24:07 PM »

Not fond of auto-save myself.  I prefer games to save only when I tell them to.
Logged

123456789

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2020, 09:20:27 PM »

That's fine if some don't like auto save, but it can easily be implemented as an option in the settings. You wouldn't HAVE to have it on, and it would be nice for the people that do want it. Their goal should be to make the game accessible and playable by as many people as possible. And yeah, it's not 'hard' to hit F5 every now and then, but I watch shows/movies sometimes while I'm playing and when I'm just exploring systems and do 4 or 5 in a row then jump in right on top of a pirate armada that is for some reason out in an uninhabited system near the edge of the sector it wastes so much time having to go back to the last save I made.
Logged

TJJ

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1905
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2020, 02:12:57 AM »

If performance is getting in the way of auto-saving, it's time for a rewrite.
Logged

Arcagnello

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1011
  • Arguably Heretical, Definetly Insane
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2020, 03:04:38 AM »

If performance is getting in the way of auto-saving, it's time for a rewrite.

Not really. Vanilla starsector could probably run on mobile and be a massive hit right now, there seriously are monster gaming phones out there that put most common laptops into the trashcan. Mods on the other hand can and will massively expand the scope of the game along with its system requirements. You bloat your own version of the game at your own risk of having a campaign so filled with extra features, trinkets and mechanics you're going to start taking half a second, a minute, 5 minutes, half an hour to save until the point where the game litterally will give up saving your grossly obese bastardization of Starsector even after allocating all your ram and part of your liver to the game. This personally happened to three of my campaigns.

Starsector has possibly one of the best mod integration and mod creation toolset ever attached to a game. I would not even be surpised to find out mod development time for Starsector probably exceeds game dev work by a factorof 2 or even more.

Just remind yourself that overmodding confidence is a slow and insidious campaign killer (preferrably said with Wade June's voice)
Logged
Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.
The therapist removed my F5 key.

DatonKallandor

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 718
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2020, 05:26:32 AM »

Slap on some mods, and go to cycle 215+, there it becomes a crawl.

Mods causing a problem is a horrible justification to not have a quality of life feature.

Make it a toggle. People that don't like it or are using too many mods can turn it off. People that expect something that has been industry standard for more than a decade for good reason to be in the game get to have that QoL feature.
Logged

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2991
    • View Profile
Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2020, 05:46:14 AM »

Since people are starting to get mega defensive about autosave, I just want to say that the things I said mostly reflect Alex's responses the last time autosave got brought up. Of course I wouldn't mind something that can be toggled on/off and it helps lots of players. At the end of the day Alex probably had valid concerns and didn't implement it (yet?).
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.
Pages: [1] 2 3