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Author Topic: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 599233 times)

TerranEmpire

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #300 on: October 21, 2020, 06:09:20 AM »

Onslaught: I think Alex's approach is fine. Maybe some kind of armor buff would be nice, too.

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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #301 on: October 21, 2020, 06:13:28 AM »

I would not want an armor buff on Onslaught unless either Conquest (and Odyssey and Legion) gets one too or Onslaught DP cost gets raised (to 45).  If there is one buff I like to see on Onslaught, it is more dissipation so it can use heavy weapons aside from Hellbore or Devastator more comfortably.

Conquest receiving 200 armor and hull, plus Heavy Ballistics Integration, along with de-powered skills across the board at 0.8a, raised Conquest from being a joke to being able to brawl against Onslaught and have roughly even chance of winning or losing.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 06:16:00 AM by Megas »
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TerranEmpire

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #302 on: October 21, 2020, 06:16:10 AM »

Honestly I think Conquest has less staying power compared to Onslaught. But also it's a lot cheaper, so I think it's fine.
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #303 on: October 21, 2020, 06:19:44 AM »

Can we please get a buff to PD?

Like giving PD a modifier that increases damage to fighters and missiles but reduces damage to everything else.
This is a good, simple alternative to my dodge mechanic proposal.
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I'm not going to check but you should feel bad :( - Alex

Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #304 on: October 21, 2020, 06:24:14 AM »

Honestly I think Conquest has less staying power compared to Onslaught. But also it's a lot cheaper, so I think it's fine.
Conquest is not so flimsy if its shield is powered up.  Max capacitors or Hardened Shields will give it sufficient durability in a duel.  Also, Conquest can use high-end heavy weapons more easily than Onslaught.

Currently, HAG, Mjolnir, Gauss Cannon, and Storm Needler are almost Conquest-only weapons because it is the only ship with the flux stats to comfortably support them.  I suppose Dominator and Legion can use them if they are the only weapons are the ship; that is, naked hull similar to two blaster, no-missile Aurora or two plasma cannon Odyssey.

Can we please get a buff to PD?

Like giving PD a modifier that increases damage to fighters and missiles but reduces damage to everything else.
This is a good, simple alternative to my dodge mechanic proposal.
I would not want this as a blanket for all.  Heavy machine gun (and probably dual light MG too) is a PD weapon, but it is better used as an assault weapon to compliment the chaingun.  LR PD laser is a low-powered but efficient general-purpose weapon.  Something like Paladin PD would be useful as an autopulse substitute if it was not so inefficient.  Nevermind weapons that get converted to PD like IPDAI IR Pulse Laser or Railgun.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 06:32:35 AM by Megas »
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TerranEmpire

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #305 on: October 21, 2020, 06:30:25 AM »

I didn't say that Conquest is a paper tiger. I sad it has less staying power.
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Modo44

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #306 on: October 21, 2020, 06:48:53 AM »

I didn't say that Conquest is a paper tiger. I sad it has less staying power.
And way more mobility, which makes it it deadlier in a fleet, especially to smaller targets. It should not match low-tech ships for armour. That would make it too easy to use in any situation.
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Melanoc3tus II

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #307 on: October 21, 2020, 07:23:00 AM »

Some things to consider regarding the Onslaught.

The Onslaught is ancient. From it's description, we can ascertain that it was designed in a time before shields, having received modifications to get to the point it is at in-game. Already, this means that it's shields shouldn't be up to much, as almost all high tech, shield reliant ships seem to have so little space left for other components that they are limited to energy weaponry. Additionally, design is so significantly different that I imagine high tech ships are built around the various projectors and subsystems necessary to support such defences. As such, the Onslaught's shields should be small, slow, and inefficient for a ship of it's class.

"When first launched from orbital dock, they must have surely dwarfed any other ship in existence"

Further evidence. All this puts the Onslaught at roughly the same epoch as the Hound, a design so outdated that it has either been nearly entirely converted to a cargo freighter, or was built for a time in which hyperdrives were so weak that and even small journeys would take months, or even years.

Note that the Cerberus is obviously a modern(ish) improvement on the freighting capabilities, whether or not originally intended, of the Hound.

Exact sizes are difficult to measure in such an abstract phrase, but this would most probably mean that the standard warships of the time were frigates, with perhaps the rare destroyer or two. The scarcity of low tech destroyers would mean something if not for the possibility that the superior midline destroyers (Hammerheads, Hammerheads, and Hammerheads) completely phased them out before the time at which the game takes place.

As such, the thermal pulse cannons built into the Onslaught are even less sensible than their use on a low tech ship would normally be, as they are clearly not intended for use on small craft.

But do not despair, as there is a (potential) answer to this dilemma. The Onslaught was not meant for ship combat. It was meant for sieges. It was the first step in countering large battlestations, by dumping rounds of thermal lasers at appreciable distance, and then retreating to repeat the process. Additionally, this explains the proclivity for side mounted heavy weaponry - The Onslaught is built to survive swarms of combat frigates as it closes with it's target, breaking the line of battle, and allowing the ships sheltered behind it's heavily armoured bulk to wreck havoc on the enemy. This also explains the burn drive.

Thusly, the Onslaught would have had no issues with the inefficiency of it's weaponry. Of course, it is up to Alex to decide whether the modernisation it received removed that weakness (in this next update, that is).

Anyways, the Onslaught is not meant to be as good as other capitals. The description says it all - it's absolutely archaic, kept alive only by it's simple manufacturing process, ruggedness, and the turmoil and disorder being suffered by the Sector.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 09:35:24 AM by Melanoc3tus II »
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TerranEmpire

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #308 on: October 21, 2020, 07:26:52 AM »

Honestly I don't really like endgame combat. Defeating the same kind of fleet for the 31st time is not that funny. Especially in Nexerelin, where the Ai just tend to send fleet after fleet against you...
For these kind of trench warfare battles (where the enemy fleet has mostly Conquests btw), the Onslaught holds the line way better. It doesn't have to break the line, holding the line is fine for me. I did that battle 31 times. I just want to eat/ have a shower/etc while my fleet handles the latest bunch of Conquests. That's why I prefer the Onslaught. After I check the battle, they are still there. All of them.

(Alex, if you see this)
Btw some kind of autoresolve would be nice...
The situation I described is one of my reasons to start to eradicate the core worlds. Because either in nex or in vanilla, it's easier to get rid of the source of the problem than handle it constatly...
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CoverdInBees

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #309 on: October 21, 2020, 07:35:08 AM »

I didn't say that Conquest is a paper tiger. I sad it has less staying power.

It's also a battle cruiser instead of a battleship, and it actually fares a bit better in that role than they probably would when looking at their IRL analogies. (hard to say since that only really happened once and it's easy to draw exaggeratedly harsh conclusions from Jutland, considering the way the Brits disregarded their safety measures) as long as you don't try to straight up facetank the other capitals. (which is also fair since it's also

As for the Onslaught, i would be very wary of buffing it any further with the direct and indirect buffs it's already going to get. Don't see a problem with it being a platform for the lower end large weapons either. If anything the problem is that there aren't enough ships with large slots in total to give every weapon enough viable choices to use them on, and that will probably get corrected over time as the ship lineups are finalized.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 07:37:05 AM by CoverdInBees »
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Melanoc3tus II

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #310 on: October 21, 2020, 09:15:58 AM »

So, another thing. Wouldn't the new shield for EMP resist trade allow for 100% invulnerability in conjunction with armoured weapon mounts?
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #311 on: October 21, 2020, 09:18:55 AM »

So, another thing. Wouldn't the new shield for EMP resist trade allow for 100% invulnerability in conjunction with armoured weapon mounts?

Usually reductions to stats are applied multiplicatively in this game, so 2 -50% would yield 25% (and increases to stats are applied additive, so 2 +50% would give 200%, not 225%). That would be my guess at least.
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Melanoc3tus II

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #312 on: October 21, 2020, 09:32:34 AM »

So, another thing. Wouldn't the new shield for EMP resist trade allow for 100% invulnerability in conjunction with armoured weapon mounts?

Usually reductions to stats are applied multiplicatively in this game, so 2 -50% would yield 25% (and increases to stats are applied additive, so 2 +50% would give 200%, not 225%). That would be my guess at least.

Right, thanks!
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Wyvern

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #313 on: October 21, 2020, 10:13:50 AM »

Will we be able to go beyond 5 weapon groups next patch? I've seen it being suggested and discussed a couple of times but can't remember if you (Alex) weighed in on it or not, and if so what your opinion on it was.
Does seem like something that might easily have slipped the patch notes even you implemented it.

Nope! It's just enough of a pain to do that I'm hesitant to "just do it".
Usually I don't have an issue with the current five weapon groups... but there are some ships where it's a serious limitation, especially with respect to ships that are being set up for AI control. As has been mentioned, the Onslaught is a major contender here - the TPCs being fixed means that you get much better performance from them if you put them in separate weapon groups... and then you need a group for missiles, and a group for PD, and then you're down to one group left for literally everything else. A Dominator with asymmetrical large guns runs into the same problem, and I've had issues with arming Paragons as well.

Honestly, I actually miss the pre-TPC Onslaught, when it just had an extra two large ballistic hardpoints - with actual firing arcs to them. I used Mjolnirs back then, and those worked pretty well - not the most efficient guns, but highly accurate - and I basically only used them when targets were out of range of the rest of the ship's weaponry, in which context they were effectively flux-neutral.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #314 on: October 21, 2020, 10:29:29 AM »

@Alex
Any words about that terrible tariffs?
Maybe make them scale down based on reputation and commission?

Well, the word is that they're about as punishing as I'd like them to be :) If they're more than you want to pay, sell that Paragon blueprint on the black market!


Can we please get a buff to PD?

Like giving PD a modifier that increases damage to fighters and missiles but reduces damage to everything else.

Just as a general note - if you don't explain the "why" behind a request of this nature, it's really hard for me to make heads or tails of it.

(That said, there's a point-defense-boosting skill in the next release that's more powerful than what's currently available.)


I wonder how the pod compares with Annihilators.  It would be nice if the new Breach pod lasts at least as long as Locusts.  Even with Expanded Missile Racks, Annihilators do not last long enough in big battles, and Onslaught that relies on Annihilators feels like a quasi-SO ship.  If Breach pods last long, and are effective enough, they might replace Annihilator pods on my Onslaught loadouts.

Often, I pick Conquest over Onslaught because Locusts last longer than Annihilators.

They're fundamentally different roles - the Breach is more anti-armor, while the Annihilators are for sustained pressure. So the answer is "it depends", since Breach use will depend on how often there's an opportunity to fire them off at armor.


Usually reductions to stats are applied multiplicatively in this game, so 2 -50% would yield 25% (and increases to stats are applied additive, so 2 +50% would give 200%, not 225%). That would be my guess at least.

(Yep, correct!)
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