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Author Topic: Swarmers  (Read 2774 times)

SonnaBanana

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Swarmers
« on: September 23, 2020, 01:18:17 AM »

How do you use them? What ships do you have use swarmers? Are they good?
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Arcagnello

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2020, 01:33:05 AM »

I find swarmers to be quite effective against factions employing a lot of small ships since they can easily overpower their small flux capacity and erase them on the spot. They're rather effective against phase ships too.

That said, I actually prefer using Salamanders since they've got more utility against bigger targets while still being able to paralyze and doom smaller/faster enemies.
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Grievous69

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2020, 01:36:42 AM »

Ehh, I've used them before on frigates that had troubles dealing with fighters, but lately I almost never used them. There's usually a better missile available that I think will do much more in combat. Only thing I like about Swarmers is that they have decent ammo, but I'd still rather choose Harpoons.
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Serenitis

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2020, 01:41:22 AM »

They do well early on when most of your opponents are shieldless and small, but will fall off in usefulness during the mid-game.
But depending on how often you run into fighters they can become useful again in a purely supporting role.

Swarmers if left to the AI will fire constantly with no restrictions, so they can be used for suppression or pressure attacks.

Generally I don't use them as a first choice. They're more a 'safe-ish' option if you don't have anything else.
Are they good?
They're good enough.
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Goumindong

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2020, 01:55:54 AM »

Swarmers are a really really good film missile when you don’t have a specific role in mind. They’re great Vs fighters and frigates and the raw pressure they put out in the start of the fight is pretty impressive.

All in all they’re about half as effective vs shields as a locust per OP and just as effective vs armor/Hull. So as a fill spot they’re really good (especially on IPDAI ships as they should ignore flares)
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SaberCherry

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2020, 09:21:28 AM »

I like to use them instead of Annihilators because despite the reduced damage, they actually hit.
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DubTre6

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2020, 09:47:56 AM »

I like swarmers on Wolf Frigates, the default loadout on the Wolf (1 pulse, 1 ion, 2 pd laser, and 2 swarmer) is a great hunter-killer against similarly sized targets.
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Thaago

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2020, 10:04:02 AM »

Like many people here I like them as anti-frigate missiles, as they do enough HE damage to crack low level armor and they have really good tracking. For anti-fighter, they help but I feel like the HE damage type and relatively low DPS make them not particularly effective. Better than nothing, but not that great.
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shrek_luigi

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2020, 01:37:59 PM »

they're quite good as a generalist HE weapon when used in large numbers, even though their per-hit damage is fairly weak, simply because of how much ammo they've got. on a destroyer or cruiser with numerous small-missile mounts, they sort of open the door to using more flux-efficient medium/large frag ballistic weapons or simply more kinetic stuff to blast through bare hull, instead of relying on a strong HE ballistic one as a crutch to cut through that armor before going in for the kill--albeit not quite as fast. still worth it tho!

they're also really good as a preemptive to larger & slower LRM/MRMs, to overwhelm the enemy's PD-screen and ensure more of your missiles meet their mark.
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RustyCabbage

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2020, 07:09:03 PM »

Truthfully, I'd rather have any other missile (barring the single-shot version ones, of course). It takes like 13 Swarmer hits to kill a single broadsword - you genuinely might have better anti-fighter coverage using Annihilator Rockets. Tracking against frigates is nice, but it seems very much a win-more missile than something to help you win a tough fight.

SaberCherry

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2020, 10:06:00 PM »

It takes like 13 Swarmer hits to kill a single broadsword - you genuinely might have better anti-fighter coverage using Annihilator Rockets.
It only takes a couple to make a Broadsword vulnerable to Vulcans, though.  And they're really quite nice AA on a ship with no PD slots.  Like, say, a Pirate Wolf.
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Igncom1

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2020, 11:26:34 PM »

Broadswords are one of the most heavily armoured fighters in the base game!

No wonder they take a few hits.
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RustyCabbage

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2020, 12:05:36 AM »

It only takes a couple to make a Broadsword vulnerable to Vulcans, though.  And they're really quite nice AA on a ship with no PD slots.  Like, say, a Pirate Wolf.
If you're spending 4 or 8 or 16 OP of valuable missile slots in order to slightly improve your PD/anti-fighter, you'd be better off considering IPDAI or even just more/better PD/AA and getting proper missiles (you even save OP if you opt for Reapers or Hammers!).

They aren't a replacement for a lack of AA options. If a Wolf (P) has two Swarmers, it takes at least 7 seconds for it to kill a single Broadsword, by which point they've already dumped their flux into your ship. And then you remember there are three of them and you have to hope that the targeting AI actually hits the same one. And then you remember they're probably coming from a dedicated carrier, which means another wing of something, and that even if you lived long enough to use all your Swarmers you haven't even made a dent to their replacement rate. Better to just focus on whatever a Wolf (P) is actually good at than to try and fail to make it usable for a role it can't do.

I use Broadswords as an example because they're tanky enough that you might think you need the extra firepower of anti-fighter missiles to take them out. But Swarmers aren't helpful for them, and regular PD/AA does well enough against more fragile fighters. 13 hits isn't a few. It means you have to use like 40-45 ammo to take down only the initial wing. You can say they supplement PD/AA, but I don't think there are any ships that need it that can't also simply fit more PD/AA or are a lost cause altogether (like the aforementioned Wolf (P)).

They simply aren't economically worthwhile.

Modo44

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2020, 01:01:19 AM »

It's not just anti-fighter, it's anti-armour damage that hits more often than Harpoons, and a nearly continuous stream of PD-overwhelming, and AI-confusing missiles. Annihilators are great if you have a slower ship with good missile turrets. Ballistic alternatives are great if you actually have the slots/flux for them. On many frigates and destroyers, you simply don't.
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SCC

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Re: Swarmers
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2020, 09:32:53 AM »

I use swarmers not as anti-fighter missiles (no small or medium missiles are good at this), but as pseudo small HE ballistics for use on ships against other ships in a pinch. Not as good as harpoons if a ship gets overloaded, but better for keeping up the pressure.
Sabots are better than both most of the time, so I don't use swarmers often, anyway.
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