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Author Topic: Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!  (Read 17818 times)

ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!
« on: August 12, 2019, 09:01:35 AM »

Red warning beacon systems are rich veins of high-end weapons, AI cores, supplies, and fuel. The problem is: profitably extracting these resources from the Remnant can be very difficult. This guide will break down the challenges involved in Remnant mining, so you too can "enjoy" fighting 50 Ordos in a row in your endless quest for more Alpha cores.

Problem One: There are way too many Remnant fleets.
No matter how large your fleet is, Remnants can stack up enough Ordos to outnumber you 5 to 1. If this happens, you'll probably fleetwipe. You must engage the Remnant one fleet at at time, at most two. Fortunately, Remnant fleets do not do two things: they don't Sustained Burn, and they don't Emergency Burn; however, they do Interdiction Pulse. They're quite easy to avoid, as long as you're faster then they are. The Navigation skill is invaluable here; the +1 burn speed and Transverse Jump will let you run from multi-fleet pileups and allow you to avoid being ganked at the jump point when trying to leave a system. You should also build a Sensor Relay and a Nav Buoy in-system if possible; the Remnants won't take them, and the bonuses will let you easily pick your battles. You might even want to bring an Ox or two, just to increase your burn speed advantage.

Problem Two: Remnant fighters are crazy insane.
The Spark is the best interceptor in the game, the Flash blows up everything from fighters to capitals, and the Lux is okay I guess. Remnant fighters are really good, and they bring a lot of them. Your fleet needs to be able to rip through a ton of shielded fighters really quickly, and human interceptors aren't going to cut it. There are multiple solutions to this problem. The Doom rips through fighters like nothing else; two AI Dooms or one player piloted Doom with good mine placement can punch huge holes in Remnant fighter cover. Packing lots of Railguns and Needlers, both Light and Heavy, will let your warships clear out remnant fighter wings on their own. Locusts will also kill Remnant fighters; not even the Spark can deal with the Locusts' overwhelming missile saturation. Finally, after you've killed a bunch of Remnant fleets, you might consider bringing along Spark cover yourself. Six to nine wings of Sparks backed up by one of the previous options will guarantee that the Remnant fighter cover stays dead once you kill it.

Problem Three: Remnant ships are hard to kill.
Generally, Remnant ships have strong shields, high mobility, chokingly thick ECM, and a powerful mixture of ballistic and energy weaponry. They are very hard to pin down and kill. In terms of fleet design, you want a focus on kinetic weaponry, high alpha damage, and the ability to chase down ships that try to back off from the front line to dissipate flux. Needlers are very good anti-Remnant weapons, combining high kinetic DPS with high alpha. You want sustained HE pressure that forces enemies to keep their shields up, not bursty HE to punch through huge amounts of armor; weapons like the Haephestus Assault Gun or the High Intensity Laser, not weapons like the Hellbore. Harpoons are amazing for fighting the Remnant, as they're long range, have good tracking, more than enough damage to punch through Remnant armor, and the AI will happily dump a dozen of them on anything that hits high flux. This is very desirable behaviour when fighting Remnant, as the Harpoons will hunt high-flux ships down when they try to cycle out from the front line.

Problem Four: The Radiant exists.
If you haven't encountered one, why are you reading this? The Radiant has an overwhelming forward battery of five large and four medium synergy slots, defensive stats equivalent to the Paragon, and a Phase Skimmer. Be very afraid. You need something that can survive being jumped on by a Radiant, so an Onslaught or a Paragon, and something that can chase down a high-flux Radiant when it disengages; either a lot of tracking missiles, a player Doom, a battlecruiser, or an Onslaught that's not afraid to burn drive into a Radiant.

Problem Five: Alpha Cores refuse to drop.
Ritually sacrifice an Enforcer. I'm serious. Get a junker Enforcer, stick Reinforced Bulkheads and Safety Overrides on it, and give it an Eliminate order deep in the heart of the Remnant formation at the start of every fight. The RNG wants a blood sacrifice before it will give you AI cores.

Example Anti-Remnant Ship Builds

Onslaught

This Onslaught design is the backbone of my Remnant mining fleets. It has all the hallmarks of anti-Remnant ship design; Heavy Needlers for high kinetic alpha burst, Haephestus Assault Guns to force shields up for long periods of time, and lots of ECCM Harpoons to hunt down ships that try to cycle out. It's also fairly effective against high-tech ships in general.
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Astral

The Astral is designed to hide behind your front line ships, like the Onslaught, and deliver death to anything they engage. The Longbows tear down shields, the Dagger wings throw tracking torpedoes that can hit destroyers and frigates, and the Cobras fling Reapers for destroying Brilliants and forcing Radiants to spend Phase Skimmer charges on dodging rather than jumping on pressured ships. The Locusts help with removing Remnant fighters. Most weapon mounts are left empty to save on flux and afford more expensive bombers. Resistant Flux Conduits encourages the AI to vent when not under pressure, so it can use Recall Device more.
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Doom

This Doom loadout is effective when piloted by either the player or your officers. It forces shields up with phase lances and mines, and the light needlers tear them down. Phase ships prefer long-cooldown high-burst weapons that allow them to stay in phase most of the time while still dealing most of their DPS, and both phase lances and light needlers fit that preference. Mine Strike will, of course, destroy Remnant fighters quite thoroughly, as well as finishing off fluxed-out ships in general.
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Mora

After you've looted a bunch of Spark LPCs, you might consider bringing your own Spark cover. This Mora brings 3 Spark wings and 2 Harpoon pods to the table, making it a great escort for your capitals. Unlike the Heron, the Mora's Damper Field lets it not die when jumped on by Remnant destroyers or cruisers, but you'll still need to act quickly to pull it out of the fire.
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Eagle

The classic 1000 range gun platform, this Eagle will ably cover your flanks and support your larger ships. The mixture of 2 HVDs with 1 Ion Beam and 1 Mauler is very powerful; the Ion Beam prevents shield-flickering between HVD shots and disables weapons and engines even if the shield is up, the HVDs and Ion Beam disable weapons if the shields are down, and the Mauler punches through armor. The Graviton Beams and LRPD allow it to overload and kill shielded fighters, preventing it from being overwhelmed by Remnant fighter cover.
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Igncom1

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Re: Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2019, 09:06:49 AM »

Seeing as the remnant fighters are shielded, you might want to swap out the fragmentation point defence for simple machine-guns. They don't have too much more of a flux cost and you'll save on the OP for vents/caps.

Not to mention their use in a brawling situation.
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2019, 09:22:55 AM »

Seeing as the remnant fighters are shielded, you might want to swap out the fragmentation point defence for simple machine-guns. They don't have too much more of a flux cost and you'll save on the OP for vents/caps.

Not to mention their use in a brawling situation.
That's also an option. I wouldn't swap Heavy Machine Guns for Flak Cannons, because you need those to chew through the Proxy Mine waves Flash Bombers will throw at you, but swapping LMGs in for Vulcans can work.
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Plantissue

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Re: Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2019, 09:26:20 AM »

Avoiding being ganged up by fleets like you've been doing all game long, and specialising most weaponry to be either anti-fighter, or anti shield is sound advice. However, remnants aren't so difficult or strange from other factions that they necessitate such drastic specialisation. The main difference is that remnant frigates are fast and so need chasing for the kill. For instance, I happened to use my bog standard fleet of Apogees (back when they had 0.6 shield flux per damage) and specialist frigates to deal with remnant fleets.

Radiants aren't much of a problem as they tend to only deploy once everything else in the remnant fleet is dead. Remnant frigates do tend to be fast, so fast ships or very long range weapons or fighters are useful to kill their frigates. The only thing to especially watch out for is that Radiants are unexpectedly fast and manoeuvrable due to phase skimmer and the pair of tachyon lance they all seem to be armed with can kill a frigate unexpectedly. Also they are one of the few ships which have a ship/weapon layout that makes sense.
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goduranus

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Re: Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2019, 09:31:28 AM »

Problem Five: Alpha Cores refuse to drop.
Ritually sacrifice an Enforcer. I'm serious. Get a junker Enforcer, stick Reinforced Bulkheads and Safety Overrides on it, and give it an Eliminate order deep in the heart of the Remnant formation at the start of every fight. The RNG wants a blood sacrifice before it will give you AI cores.

I like this ;D

Megas

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Re: Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2019, 09:35:53 AM »

I tried an Eagle similar to the OP, but it did not have enough firepower.  Good for suppressing human ships, but it lacked power against two or so mid-sized Remnants closing in for the kill.  I probably want stronger kinetics than HVDs.

Alpha cores is luck.  The few times I farmed Remnant fleets, I got an Alpha core from every huge meatgrinder Remnant fleet I fought.  Looted more Alpha cores than the two or three I found from exploration.
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goduranus

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Re: Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2019, 09:48:58 AM »

This loadouts is all you need ::) https://sectorloadouts.info/view/paoZM6y6aNn9RCtT4, you can even take on several redacted fleets at once!

« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 09:56:19 AM by goduranus »
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Megas

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Re: Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2019, 10:20:37 AM »

Cannot exactly use Sparks without farming Remnants in the first place.  The main reason why I went to farm Remnants in the first place was to get those Sparks!  I ended up looting at least as many alpha cores as Sparks after fighting several Ordos fleets.
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Thaago

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Re: Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2019, 10:58:11 AM »

Thanks for the guide, its all good advice. Like everyone else I have quibbles about build specifics, but the principles are all sound. We all build differently anyways.

Problem Five: Alpha Cores refuse to drop.
Ritually sacrifice an Enforcer. I'm serious. Get a junker Enforcer, stick Reinforced Bulkheads and Safety Overrides on it, and give it an Eliminate order deep in the heart of the Remnant formation at the start of every fight. The RNG wants a blood sacrifice before it will give you AI cores.

I like this ;D

Seconded, had a chuckle.


Ooooh, Drover Sparks, you are so overpowered once you hit critical mass.
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crypticorb

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Re: Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2020, 02:12:44 PM »

This loadouts is all you need ::) https://sectorloadouts.info/view/paoZM6y6aNn9RCtT4, you can even take on several redacted fleets at once!

Can you provide a screenshot or text list of the loadout for your drovers?
The link to starsectorloadouts.info is broken, most likely because the site is down.

I can tell you are using Extended Shields and zero weapons in the weapons slots, but not why or anything else about the loadout.

Thanks
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Apfelkuchenbemme

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Re: Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2020, 03:27:30 PM »

I knew it … after chasing down dozens of Herons in my Paragon (read: “slowly slumbering after them until they made a mistake”), I just knew fighter spam would probably solve the problem I have with Remnant fleets.

But JFC man, I didn’t think it’d be that effective. Granted you pump out ridiculous numbers of fighters because you field a boatload of Drovers themselves, but I honestly never even knew about their Ability. With 20 Drovers in my fleet, nothing short of being ganged up by several Remnant Ordos at once is a problem in red sectors now.

Aside from “2 Spark LPCs and no guns”, pretty much any setup works imo. Depends on the battle size you choose in the settings of course, but with a battle size of 350, you can comfortably field ~16 or so Drovers while the Remnants won’t be able to send all Brilliants at once (I’m speaking of fighting a single fleet with 1+ Radiants here).

I wouldn’t put that much into defense honestly because the only reason a Radiant is able to dig through your Drovers is you didn’t pay attention to the map. Keep the Phase Skimmers of the Radiants in mind, pull back if you need to and you’re golden. Still, most of the designs I tried focus on 20+ Capacitors, just to have some wiggle room if things go south. But Again, with 3000 Flux Cap base and 0.8 Shield Flux, Drovers aren’t really made from wood hard enough to withstand two Brilliants with two Heavy Needlers up close and personal anyways and if they have to, you've made a mistake.

Can you provide a screenshot or text list of the loadout for your drovers?

From my vanilla game experience, some designs can be:

 Ol’ trusty:


Extended shields to guard the rear as you retreat.
Expanded Deck Crew for Replacement Rate.
ECM Package because well yes, we don't use guns but why should they be able to use theirs in a normal manner?
Rest of the OP dumped into Flux.

Literally as easy as it gets.
It just. Works.
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A more dangerous mix: (well, not all THAT much, but still)


Hardened Subsystem for the longer Peak Performance Time (wait … is this some kind of innuendo?)
ECM Package because let them come towards you
15 Flux Caps
5 Flux Vents

Again, the only reason a Radiant should come knocking with five Autopulse Lasers, is you didn’t pay enough attention to the map or you put Waypoints in a way the AI tries to reach Waypoint Kappa at the other end of the map.

Taking this over “Ol’ trusty” up there sacrifices a bit of survivability in a “Shoot, I forgot about that Cruiser!” moment but currently, I have 20 Drovers in my fleet and like 15 back at my main colony. If a Drover buys it, we shortly raise our hand to the temple for the unknown men and women who served on that ship and then I just get another one.

What you get by choosing this over Ol’ trusty on the other hand, is a full three more minutes of Peak Performance Time, which can give you the ability to take on two Remnant Fleets without having to retreat for another engagement because CR decay.
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As for designs that uhh, still "work" as in "you can definitely defeat Remnant fleets", but are flawed in terms of what you want them to be and what they turn out to be, you have among others:


Sounds good, doesn’t work:


You know what sounds pretty cool? 80 Salamander missiles flying about, looking after your enemy’s backsides.

You know what kills that plan?
a) Distance:
You’re way out of the enemy’s range of guns most of the time anyways, so what makes you think the Salamanders have a chance to hit?
Plus with your fleet spread apart, realistically there will only ever be like two or three Drovers launching missiles at an enemy at once; and if that happens, they are usually engulfed in so many Sparks they’re dead two seconds after impact anyways.

b) Omni-directional Shields and PD:
One moment two Salamanders have made it through the enemy PD fire (think Radiants with 10 LR PD Lasers and a Paladin System).
A moment later they are scooped up by 0.6 Flux / Damage shields for a grand total of maybe … 18?! or so hard flux.

The only real advantage of using this design are some rare moments where the Remnant ship focuses it’s shields on keeping that Salamander Missile away, thus giving the Sparks an opening. But in that moment, the Remnant ship is probably absolutely engulfed in Sparks anyways.
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Sounds good, doesn’t work 2: Electric Boogaloo


Dammit, I meant to take Expanded Deck Crew instead of the Flux Coil Adjunct again ...

Anways, the base idea is:
“Lets take the fight into the corona of a star and let the Remnants cook alive while we are shielded from the negative effects!!”

The HS + SS combo works to the point you actually have more Peak Performance Time in a corona than other ships outside of it.
However there is one ... teensy, tiny, maayybe a little bit important caveat to the whole thing:

Remnants are automated ships.
As in “They don’t give one diddly danginlidilly dooot about the corona of a star”.

Additionally, the engagements rarely last long enough to start causing CR decay on your side, let alone among the Remnant fleet. The only way they do is if you’re fighting several Remnant fleets at once. Even if the Remnants were affected by the corona of a star, you probably would have destroyed all of the smaller ships already and you’d be up against the big boys, who also have higher Peak Performance Time from the get-go.

I guess you could probably trick some pirate fleet or something into fighting in a corona while running this setup, but they're toast before the battle started anyways what with their well above 0.6 flux/damage shields, lower mobility, worse AI etc. If you ever think about running this, just go for Hardened Subsystems along with the ECM Package instead.
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TIL: Sensor Strength and Detection Range


If you look at this and – like I did – think “Daaamn, that’d be a sensor profile of 30 with a sensor strength of 120 for 20 ships … that’d be the perfect stealth build as you could see the enemy coming from an extreme distance while you spot ANYONE!!!” then uhhh … how did you manage to smuggle something up until now?

The way Sensor Mechanics work, is that Sensor Strength and Sensor Profile are calculated by the five highest values in your fleet.

Your fleet has, like mine, 2 Prometheus and 1 Atlas with Militarized Subsystems and Augmented Drivefield plus 2 Ox with an Insulated Engine Assembly?
+450 for both,
+230 for Sensor Profile aaaand you can already drop the Insulated Engine Assembly for your Drovers.

The only real reason this would kinda make sense for your Drovers, is if you don’t have more support ships like an Oddysey or something like that. Even then, taking 2 Odyssey would give you about 250 more Sensor Strength than you’d get by giving one or two Drovers some High Res Scanners.

Don’t do this setup pretty much ever and maybe do some reading about game mechanics instead.

Heck I just noticed I accidentally slapped a Flux Coil Adjunct on there instead of Expanded Deck Crew and I still managed to destroy a Remnant fleet with a Radiant and several Brilliants in it. Spark Spam really is the way to go against Remnant fleets and as long as you keep a good eye on the map, you'll be good to go.
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Bob69Joe

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Re: Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2020, 04:18:59 PM »

This loadouts is all you need ::) https://sectorloadouts.info/view/paoZM6y6aNn9RCtT4, you can even take on several redacted fleets at once!


Hilariously, this tactic repeats the same mistakes that brought the [REDACTED] into being.
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ubuntufreakdragon

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Re: Farming [REDACTED] for Fun and Profit: Spoilers Ahoy!
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2020, 03:43:57 PM »

Settle one in system planet an drop a Hightechstarfortess, no need to counter fighters anymore (4 Dooms equivalent mine strike spam), no need to finish a highflux radiant yourself (mine strike and plasma spam make escaping difficult), just drop a few tanky ships and distract them from focussing the station (a high tech station makes this easier) and kill the smaller ones first so the station focuses the radiants.
And the station allows you to freely disengage if outnumbered.
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