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Author Topic: What's the best battle fleet to have?  (Read 2965 times)

SpartanOli

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What's the best battle fleet to have?
« on: July 25, 2020, 06:06:24 PM »

Hello! Im pretty new at this game (been playing for 1-2 weeks).
Im was having fun up until now. I have alot of money (12M), and im planning to colonise soon. After looking in alot of systems, the best planet i could "find" is one of the core world of the Luddic Path (Found another one, but it's surrounded by pirates) so i need a nice fleet in order to take it.

My fleet is pretty small (alot of tempests), but it gets the job done. For now, i was only smuggling and exploring because i find building a fleet a huge shore (too many ships, too many guns, too many things to consider).

I think i spent 6hrs just today trying to find in the forums a "best fleet" to have with everything detailed like which guns to use, which mods, etc. but couldn't find any (or outdated).

I created an account just to ask this because i really want to continue to play, but im stuck.
What would be the best fleet to have? (Like to obliterate everything). Ultimately, i want to destroy all the factions in the game, but for now, im friendly with most of them.
I don't really like piloting a big ship, i prefer having a small/medium fast ship helping here and there.

So any help is appreciated :)
(Pictures are my best friends. I know things from what they look like, not what their names are lol)
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Mordodrukow

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2020, 07:44:55 PM »

2 or 3 Paragons, some additional ships to make game give you more deployment points (i d take few Odysseys and several smaller ships like Phalcons, Eagles, Auroras and Apogees), 1-2 tankers, 1-2 freighters and enough Oxes to get burn 20.
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SpartanOli

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2020, 07:57:41 PM »

I have no idea what you just said. I recognised some ships names though
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pedro1_1

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2020, 10:22:10 PM »

I don't think it's possible to create a "Best" battle fleet, but some ships are definitivally better than others, I will stick to vanilla only.

For the flagship, you want to fill a role none of your ships fill and that the game AI can't fill corectly(Sniper, Flanker, Etc...), I also can't say weapons on most ships, since those are personal, but I would consider these ships:

  • Hyperion-class frigate, it's a suppership, it's the reason it costs so much for a frigate, should probably have 2 or 3 on the fleet, for when your Peak Performace Time(PPT) drops to 0 and you need to swich.
  • Afflictor-class Phase frigate, it has a phase field insted of a shield, so take care when out of phase, it has efective PPT equal to that of the Hyperion, so take the same amount of ships as it, it's favorite weapons are reaper torpedos and AM blasters.
  • Hammerhead-Class Destroyer, it's strong, and it can have as much PPT as capital ships have, but you pay in reduced OP, which is not really a problem, the Hammerhead in this case is a back line ship, which uses long range weapons to hit the targets, or you can use mid range weapons and have less PPT, in which case you whant to have 1 as a backup.
  • Harbinger-Class Phase Destroyer, This ship is main strengh is making ships overload for a short period of time, which means you want weapons that can either do big damage or disable a ship, the former means you whant either AM blasters, Heavy Blaster or Mining Blaster, the latter uses the only EMP weapon that can do damage on a few seconds: the Ion Pulser as well aas using the hull mod that buffs the Ion pulser, Expanded Magazines, I think the latter is better, because it can remove the big weapons of the enemy capitals and retreat, and it takes quite a few seconds to recover from a EMP attack, has the efective PPT of a frigate, so should ake 1 or 2 on the fleet.
  • Sunder-Class Destroyer, this ship brings 1 large energy weapon to the battle, it is identical to the Hammerhead on that it can stay as much time as capital ships in battle, but unlike the Hammerhead it can't afford to take damage, since it's shields are really bad, definitivally worth looking at, specially the long range variants.
  • Aurora-Class Cruiser, this is a really strong ship that can do heavy damage while being fast, it can use some loadouts, but some are better than others, it's ships system is also strong, it can do the same thing as Harbinger on that it can either do damage or disable ships, but it's better at doing damage, it can achive capital PPT only on skills which is great, since you can use all of it's OP to fight, and you don't need reinforcements either.
  • Doom-Class Phase Cruiser, it's strong, it can deploy mines from phase and deal damage, it's weakness is that it has efective destroyer PPT, so you should bring 1 ship.
  • Odyssey-Class Battlecruiser, "Why have big ship be slow" is what the desiners of this ship though, the Odyssey is a capital that has 70 base speed, it is a increadible ship that you can use even on a half descent form, and it's a capital, so it has Capital PPT and you don't need ships to swich into.

For the main body you will need to fill some of these roles:

  • Main line, ships that win slug fests by winning the flux war, the primary ships that can win this kind of battle are capitals, but some criusers also do that, a quick list of ships that can fill this category:
    • Tanks, these are the ships that recive and return damage:

      • Onslaught-Class Battleship, preference for XIV Battlegroup
      • Paragon-Class Battleship
      • Dominator-Class Heavy Cruiser, preference for XIV Battlegroup
      • Legion-Class Battlecarrier, non-XIV Battlegroup
      • Apogee-Class Cruiser
    • Screeners, ships that are made to stop fighter and missiles from destroying the Main line, almost all are frigates:
    • Missile plataforms, ships that are made to send missiles to destroy any ship that wants, generally are cruisers, main weakness is running out off missiles, I also gave nicknames for each ship class:
      • Buffalo Mk.II-Class Destroyer, "Should be current Ghyphon", it's a bad ship, in teory, in pratice it is a good ship because it can fit so much for only 4 DP, it also removes any senblance of niche from the Vigilance-Class Frigate.
      • Venture-Class Cruiser, "Harpoon Hopper", it's nickname is what happens as soon as any ship gets overloaded when this ship is equiped whit Harpoons.
      • Gryphon-Class Missile Cruiser, "incarnate disappointment", no need to explain, just use it and see it struggling to get to the fight.
      • Pirate Falcon A.K.A. Falcon(P)-Class Light Cruiser, "7° Tournament Demon", It's increadibly strong, to the point it was banned from the fleet building tournaments because it was so broken
  • Carriers, the ships that manifest their presence even if they are behind the lines:
    • Drover-Class Light Carrier, it is the fighter/interceptor carrier, you use it when you have little to no point defence of one type, or you can just make a fleet of this things and auto win all battles, which is not fun, they generally bring Sparks or Broadswords and Talons, because of it's system.
    • Heron-Class Fast Carrier, it can be used to bring any fighter craft, it's system is semi-neutral, bombers benefit more, but a fighter/intercepto heron can still do quite a lot of damage.
    • Astral-Class Carrier, it can bring lots of bombers, and re-arm the bombers while being at distance, a great ship to have, just don't put fighters/intercptor in it, please.
  • General support, these ships have niches too small to be considered by their niche, but because of that they end up changing niches on the fly, so for example, "A" ship from here is hunting the enemy's screeners but a enemy ship got near one of your carriers, so "A" ship disengages the screeners and goes to defend the carriers, as soon as that treat is eliminated it goes back to hunt the screeners, but one of the main line ships is at high flux, so "A" ship disengages the screeners and enters the main line in a releave effort, which allows the ship to vent and return to the fight, "A" ship disengages the main line and returns to hunt the screeners, which had their force cut in half because this ship put them out of the main line and allowed them to be picked off by the carriers, which means they are the glue that holds your fleet together in battle, these ships are:
    • Conquest-Class Battlecruiser, it can be a tank, a glass cannon and a screener at the same time
    • Promethues MK.II-Class Modified Tanker, It is stronger than most capitals when pulled right, but that means it has  burn 6, which is why it is not used in the first place
    • Eagle-Class Cruiser, preference for XIV Battlegroup variant
    • Doom-Class Phase Cruiser, it is the only viable phase ship for AI in the game currently, all wil become viable next release, this time in it's own category
    • Aurora-Class Cruiser, AI is kinda bad at using this ship
    • Non (P) Falcon-Class Light Cruiser, preference for XIV Battlegroup variant
    • Hammerhead-Class Destroyer
    • Sunder-Class Destroyer
    • Medusa-Class Destroyer
    • Shirke, preferece for Pirate Variant
    • Tempest-Class Frigate
    • Lasher-Class Frigate, avoid Luddic Path variant, AI is bad at using Safety Overides(SO) ships
    • Brawler-Class Gunship, avoid Luddic Path variant
    • Kite-Class Shutle, preference for Hegemony Auxiliary(A) variant, avoid Luddic Path, Stock(S), and Pirate variants

Them you make the logistics fleet to get you to were you want to go and to get the sweet loot and the fleet back to were you are.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 08:54:41 AM by pedro1_1 »
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pedro1_1

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2020, 10:35:54 PM »

-Sniped for the reason: Quoted myself insted of editing the post-
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 08:54:20 AM by pedro1_1 »
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2020, 10:51:42 PM »

@pedro1_1, I would add Paragon and conquest into flagship list. Conquest in good player's hands are equal to Odyssey, even better in some aspects. Requires a very specific loadouts and tactics.  Paragon is a simple killing machine. Player piloting usually makes any ships like 5-10 times more efficient, than AI does. So, if you pilot Doom - it is like there are 5-10 Dooms on the battlefield, so 35 DP spent and 175-350 DP virtually on the battlefield, i.e. +(140-315) virtual DP advantage because of player. For Paragon same virtual math gives 300-600 virtual DP or +(240-540)! It might be boring to pilot that mammoth, but it is definitely effective in player hands.
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SpartanOli

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2020, 11:21:57 PM »

I don't think it's possible to create a "Best" battle fleet, but some ships are definitivally better than others, I will stick to vanilla only.

For the flagship, you want to fill a role none of your ships fill and that the game AI can't fill corectly(Sniper, Flanker, Etc...), I also can't say weapons on most ships, since those are personal, but I would consider these ships:

  • Hyperion-class frigate, it's a suppership, it's the reason it costs so much for a frigate, should probably have 2 or 3 on the fleet, for when your Peak Performace Time(PPT) drops to 0 and you need to swich.
  • Afflictor-class Phase frigate, it has a phase field insted of a shield, so take care when out of phase, it has efective PPT equal to that of the Hyperion, so take the same amount of ships as it, it's favorite weapons are reaper torpedos and AM blasters.
  • Hammerhead-Class Destroyer, it's strong, and it can have as much PPT as capital ships have, but you pay in reduced OP, which is not really a problem, the Hammerhead in this case is a back line ship, which uses long range weapons to hit the targets, or you can use mid range weapons and have less PPT, in which case you whant to have 1 as a backup.
  • Harbinger-Class Phase Destroyer, This ship is main strengh is making ships overload for a short period of time, which means you want weapons that can either do big damage or disable a ship, the former means you whant either AM blasters, Heavy Blaster or Mining Blaster, the latter uses the only EMP weapon that can do damage on a few seconds: the Ion Pulser as well aas using the hull mod that buffs the Ion pulser, Expanded Magazines, I think the latter is better, because it can remove the big weapons of the enemy capitals and retreat, and it takes quite a few seconds to recover from a EMP attack, has the efective PPT of a frigate, so should ake 1 or 2 on the fleet.
  • Sunder-Class Destroyer, this ship brings 1 large energy weapon to the battle, it is identical to the Hammerhead on that it can stay as much time as capital ships in battle, but unlike the Hammerhead it can't afford to take damage, since it's shields are really bad, definitivally worth looking at, specially the long range variants.
  • Aurora-Class Cruiser, this is a really strong ship that can do heavy damage while being fast, it can use some loadouts, but some are better than others, it's ships system is also strong, it can do the same thing as Harbinger on that it can either do damage or disable ships, but it's better at doing damage, it can achive capital PPT only on skills which is great, since you can use all of it's OP to fight, and you don't need reinforcements either.
  • Doom-Class Phase Cruiser, it's strong, it can deploy mines from phase and deal damage, it's weakness is that it has efective destroyer PPT, so you should bring 1 ship.
  • Odyssey-Class Battlecruiser, "Why have big ship be slow" is what the desiners of this ship though, the Odyssey is a capital that has 70 base speed, it is a increadible ship that you can use even on a half descent form, and it's a capital, so it has Capital PPT and you don't need ships to swich into.

For the main body you will need to fill some of these roles:

  • Main line, ships that win slug fests by winning the flux war, the primary ships that can win this kind of battle are capitals, but some criusers also do that, a quick list of ships that can fill this category:
    • Tanks, these are the ships that recive and return damage:

      • Onslaught-Class Battleship, preference for XIV Battlegroup
      • Paragon-Class Battleship
      • Dominator-Class Heavy Cruiser, preference for XIV Battlegroup
      • Legion-Class Battlecarrier, non-XIV Battlegroup
      • Apogee-Class Cruiser
    • Screeners, ships that are made to stop fighter and missiles from destroying the Main line, almost all are frigates:
    • Missile plataforms, ships that are made to send missiles to destroy any ship that wants, generally are cruisers, main weakness is running out off missiles, I also gave nicknames for each ship class:
      • Buffalo Mk.II-Class Destroyer, "Should be current Ghyphon", it's a bad ship, in teory, in pratice it is a good ship because it can fit so much for only 4 DP, it also removes any senblance of niche from the Vigilance-Class Frigate.
      • Venture-Class Cruiser, "Harpoon Hopper", it's nickname is what happens as soon as any ship gets overloaded when this ship is equiped whit Harpoons.
      • Gryphon-Class Missile Cruiser, "incarnate disappointment", no need to explain, just use it and see it struggling to get to the fight.
      • Pirate Falcon A.K.A. Falcon(P)-Class Light Cruiser, "7° Tournament Demon", It's increadibly strong, to the point it was banned from the fleet building tournaments because it was so broken
  • Carriers, the ships that manifest their presence even if they are behind the lines:
    • Drover-Class Light Carrier, it is the fighter/interceptor carrier, you use it when you have little to no point defence of one type, or you can just make a fleet of this things and auto win all battles, which is not fun, they generally bring Sparks or Broadswords and Talons, because of it's system.
    • Heron-Class Fast Carrier, it can be used to bring any fighter craft, it's system is semi-neutral, bombers benefit more, but a fighter/intercepto heron can still do quite a lot of damage.
    • Astral-Class Carrier, it can bring lots of bombers, and re-arm the bombers while being at distance, a great ship to have, just don't put fighters/intercptor in it, please.
  • General support, these ships have niches too small to be considered by their niche, but because of that they end up changing niches on the fly, so for example, "A" ship from here is hunting the enemy's screeners but a enemy ship got near one of your carriers, so "A" ship disengages the screeners and goes to defend the carriers, as soon as that treat is eliminated it goes back to hunt the screeners, but one of the main line ships is at high flux, so "A" ship disengages the screeners and enters the main line in a releave effort, which allows the ship to vent and return to the fight, "A" ship disengages the main line and returns to hunt the screeners, which had their force cut in half because this ship put them out of the main line and allowed them to be picked off by the carriers, which means they are the glue that holds your fleet together in battle, these ships are:
    • Conquest-Class Battlecruiser, it can be a tank, a glass cannon and a screener at the same time
    • Promethues MK.II-Class Modified Tanker, It is stronger than most capitals when pulled right, but that means it has  burn 6, which is why it is not used in the first place
    • Eagle-Class Cruiser, preference for XIV Battlegroup variant
    • Doom-Class Phase Cruiser, it is the only viable phase ship for AI in the game currently, all wil become viable next release, this time in it's own category
    • Aurora-Class Cruiser, AI is kinda bad at using this ship
    • Non (P) Falcon-Class Light Cruiser, preference for XIV Battlegroup variant
    • Hammerhead-Class Destroyer
    • Sunder-Class Destroyer
    • Medusa-Class Destroyer
    • Shirke, preferece for Pirate Variant
    • Tempest-Class Frigate
    • Lasher-Class Frigate, avoid Luddic Path variant, AI is bad at using Safety Overides(SO) ships
    • Brawler-Class Gunship, avoid Luddic Path variant
    • Kite-Class Shutle, preference for Hegemony Auxiliary(A) variant, avoid Luddic Path, Stock(S), and Pirate variants

Them you make the logistics fleet to get you to were you whant to go and to get the sweet loot and the fleet back to were you are.

Thanks for all that information, appreciated!

But is there like a build i can take (where everything is already modded, equipped, etc.) because that's the thing i hate the most in these kind of games (i almost didn't get SS because of it) it's to know what goes well with what, which guns are the most efficient on which ships and agaisn't which enemy, which ship to take to reduce the ressources needed for maintenance, etc.
I want to die when i have to do that. And if i don't do that, the game is gonna get stagnant. It's already getting a bit boring because i only do exploration (without finding a single good planet  >:( ).
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SCC

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2020, 12:51:07 AM »

You can always focus on bounties instead and make your way up, learning what works and what doesn't. Making some "best fleet with all the loadouts" post is both too tedious and too obvious to do (and you'll be criticised either way). Just throw Sparks at Drovers (2x Spark Wing, 4x Harpoon racks, 2x vulcans, Expanded Deck Crew, Expanded Missile Racks, rest caps). Or whatever at Paragons (default loadout is pretty good). Or spam SO CH (SO stands for Safety Override, CH for Converted Hangar) Hammerheads instead (ask someone else about a loadout).
But most of the time, it's simply unnecessary, because you can always bring more ships and drown the enemy with numbers, especially since colonies are so profitable now. Other than that, you can learn how to play the game better by playing it more. You don't even have to be pedantic with numbers, it's enough to notice if a ship is underperforming, shake up its loadout, check if it's still not good, and if so, get rid of it.

pedro1_1

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2020, 09:23:58 AM »

I would add Paragon and conquest into flagship list. Conquest in good player's hands are equal to Odyssey, even better in some aspects. Requires a very specific loadouts and tactics.  Paragon is a simple killing machine. Player piloting usually makes any ships like 5-10 times more efficient, than AI does. So, if you pilot Doom - it is like there are 5-10 Dooms on the battlefield, so 35 DP spent and 175-350 DP virtually on the battlefield, i.e. +(140-315) virtual DP advantage because of player. For Paragon same virtual math gives 300-600 virtual DP or +(240-540)! It might be boring to pilot that mammoth, but it is definitely effective in player hands.

The Paragon is the type of ship he does not like to fly, for the Conquest, it is fast, but it's not fast enouth, I cut the fast ships at 70 SU for non catitals and 50 SU for capitals, and that's the reason I did not include it nor the Gryphon on the flagship line, because they are faster than the alternatives that use their weaponry, but they are too slow because of their weaponry, as for why I did not include the Falcon on the list, it is simple, the variant that's worth to use as a flagship, the XIV Battlegroup, is at 62 SU.

Thanks for all that information, appreciated!

But is there like a build i can take (where everything is already modded, equipped, etc.) because that's the thing i hate the most in these kind of games (i almost didn't get SS because of it) it's to know what goes well with what, which guns are the most efficient on which ships and agaisn't which enemy, which ship to take to reduce the ressources needed for maintenance, etc.
I want to die when i have to do that. And if i don't do that, the game is gonna get stagnant. It's already getting a bit boring because i only do exploration (without finding a single good planet  >:( ).

You should try using a game to make the loadouts you whant and them using these loadouts on basically every game you play after, you can save screenshots by using the Print Screen button, which makes following the loadouts much easier to re-make
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Igncom1

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2020, 09:43:51 AM »

Best fleet for what? Pirate hunting? Surveying? Luddite hunting? Piracy? Fighting patrol fleets? Fighting capital fleets? Fighting small space stations? Battlestations? Small remnant probe fleets? Remnant ordos fleets? Remnant space stations? Smuggling?

We gotta define what the fleets purpose is as frankly paragons are one of the worst ships in the game for long range survey missions.

If it's just general purpose, destroy the best that the major factions have to offer you also have to understand what kinds of fleets they will be wielding. Hegemony ships are big and heavy with a mix of lowtech and midline gunboats supported by some carriers and lead by massive low tech battleships and battlecarriers. But then TriTachyon utilize large carrier/phase fleets of midline and hightech designs often lead by insane hightech battleships, supercarriers, and phase cruisers. With differing kinds of weapons and defences making utilizing a fleet for one harder to use on the other.

One thing for sure right now is the dominance of strikecraft that screw up the AI of proper ships enough to prevent them from often dealing with the supporting carriers. You may have heard of using Drover-class carriers carrying Spark-class interceptors to build massive and highly effective swarms of craft that when in a critical mass can chew through anything and everything. But even a bit off from that specific fleet you can do a lot of work and have a lot of fun.

For most bigger battles a fleet consisting of 15-20 carriers (to swarm and destroy the enemy) supported by 5 or so battleships (to take punishment and tie up the enemy) can take on basically everything. Even the biggest of space stations when distracted by sufficiently defensive battleships can be taken down by carriers and their strikecraft (assuming mines don't catch them.)

This isn't to say that gunboats (ships that focus on their own guns or missiles rather then hanger space) are bad by any means, just that the ability to tie up the enemy pointlessly swatting at your endlessly re-spawning strikecraft means that you can take your time to kill their ships knowing that they simply don't have time to attack your vulnerable carriers.

(I personally love doing non-meta stuff so I tend to only stick with carriers in the hardest battles or for fun. Destroyers with converted hangers, each carrying fighter craft are very nice additions to your fleet.)
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TaLaR

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2020, 09:46:54 AM »

The Paragon is the type of ship he does not like to fly, for the Conquest, it is fast, but it's not fast enouth, I cut the fast ships at 70 SU for non catitals and 50 SU for capitals, and that's the reason I did not include it nor the Gryphon on the flagship line, because they are faster than the alternatives that use their weaponry, but they are too slow because of their weaponry, as for why I did not include the Falcon on the list, it is simple, the variant that's worth to use as a flagship, the XIV Battlegroup, is at 62 SU.

Conquest is effectively 70 SU, 45 base + 25 from having 50 boost half the time (which is actually better than flat 25).

Falcon XIV is a downgrade - it trades what really matters (speed) for very minor boosts in OP/flux/armor. XIV hullmod is for ships like Onslaught - so slow that losing a few more speed units doesn't matter. It's mobility is more about Zero Flux Boost and Burn Drive rather than base speed anyway.
Either way basic Falcon is not a top pick for player ship - very easy to pilot (for AI as well), but simply doesn't have much impact on flow of combat. Falcon(P) is good option for early-mid game though.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 09:50:11 AM by TaLaR »
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pedro1_1

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2020, 11:07:59 AM »

Conquest is effectively 70 SU, 45 base + 25 from having 50 boost half the time (which is actually better than flat 25).

There are also other factors, and for new players, the conquest is effectively base 45, since new players are advised not to use combat skills and as such can't have Helmsmanship 3 skill needed to use the zero flux boost, which is why Conquest is a advanced player ship, unfit for a new player.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2020, 11:31:41 AM »

I've really been enjoying SO falcon as a flagship early on. I think it's somewhat underrated.
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Igncom1

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2020, 11:46:04 AM »

Falcons are the best destroyers in the game. So good in fact, it's a cruiser.
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TaLaR

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Re: What's the best battle fleet to have?
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2020, 11:52:21 AM »

Conquest is effectively 70 SU, 45 base + 25 from having 50 boost half the time (which is actually better than flat 25).

There are also other factors, and for new players, the conquest is effectively base 45, since new players are advised not to use combat skills and as such can't have Helmsmanship 3 skill needed to use the zero flux boost, which is why Conquest is a advanced player ship, unfit for a new player.

I'm not talking about ZFB, but ship's system (Maneuvering Jets). Even AI can use that.
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