So what I've learned from all of this is that fighter superiority is even more important that I thought originally. I knew that it's good to have a carrier or two in your fleet just to help with those pesky frigates or just pure distraction, but this, this is just wrong. I wonder how a fleet full of Converted Hangars would perform vs just the ''usual builds'' (I know it's not the thread for this, I'm just thinking out loud). So yeah long story short, fighters are too strong and AI is too dumb vs fighters.
Well, I wouldn't say it is superiority. Its more like, concentration on target.
Here's some more data to throw out there.
I only did one run of each of the following so far.
60 DP gunship core + 6x Condor
Condor with Broadsword, Dagger, Reaper, 2x Vulcan, Expanded Deck crew, rest in caps
vs
60 DP gunship core + 3x Heron (Cruiser class carrier)
Broadsword, 2x Dagger, Expanded Deck crew, x3 PD Laser, x1 Flak, 20 Caps, 1 vent
Very clean Heron victory, lost Wolf, Lasher, but it did not go to time unlike nearly all the other fights. Coordinated bombers were taking out ships in like 1 to 2 passes.
Heron also seems to have much better timing on using its ability.
In this case, the Condors have 6x Broadsword and 6x Daggers, but are losing to 3x Broadsword + 6x Daggers (admittedly with the ability to burst damage by x1.5). But are very clearly taken out. Also, unlike a Drover sending their fighters against a Condor, the Condor doesn't survive. Condor can tank 3x Atropos at a time roughly indefinitely. Not so much against 6x1.5=9.
I then tried to have the same ratio of broadsword to daggers on the condor side by using 2 different condor designs.
Condor with Broadsword x2, Salamander pod, vulcan x2, expanded deck crew, rest in caps (2 of these)
Condor with Broadsword, Dagger, reaper, vulcan x2, expanded deck crew, rest in caps (4 of these)
versus the above Heron fleet.
Heron still win, no losses this time. Again a very quick fight.
Once a coordinated group of bombers is large enough, and can deal enough damage to overload a target in a single pass, you hit a transition point. Things start dying quick. Hammerheads, Condors and Frigates just can't deal well with the damage equivalent of 9 (or sometimes 18) 1000 damage HE missiles in a short period of time. Especially if they're already in engaged. The coordination (all of them hitting in a short period of time) really makes the difference.
So out of curiosity, I then decided to try the Herons against the Drovers.
Drover with Broadsword, Dagger, 2x Vulcan, 4x Harpoon, Expanded Deck crew, rest in caps
Heron won, 2x Wolf, 2x Lasher, 1x Hammerhead
But it was a long fight. The frigates ran out of CR. The superior shields and speed of the Drovers begin to tell in the case where the
enemy is superior. They survive longer by kiting. It doesn't make them win, but it does in fact mean they survive longer when your side is losing. Which can be extremely important for a player fleet, given a human pilot can be superior locally where they're flying, but have their fleet be inferior everywhere else.
Which suggests we should also do some testing of something like 240 DP fleets against 120 DP fleets or the like. Put the carriers on the losing side, and see how long they last, and how many kills they get. That should show the Drover superiority.
In our previous testing, the speed and toughness of the Condor just needs to be high enough to survive a pair of fighter wings, as that's the only thing that can reach them. Because the AI doesn't focus fire, as long as the Condor can survive that shield tanking, it'll survive indefinitely. Since the offensive power of 5 Drovers is close to or slightly lower to that of 6 Condors (reserve deployment only really worth 1.5 on fighters/interceptors, and even then inefficiently on cooldown), we don't see a big advantage. Mostly because we're not stressing that part of the ship stats.
Also other interesting AI tidbits. The Herons in all cases were much closer to the front lines. Being cruisers, they seemed to fear the other ships less. Which meant shorter turn around times for fighters, and perhaps more importantly, they tanked some bomber waves, and then would pull back to vent. Which meant the fleet had effectively more shield capacity to spread incoming damage across at the beginning of the fight.
It'd be interesting to see what happens with the drovers if we put railguns instead of vulcans on, and bump their aggressiveness up. Potentially if you use them more like 2nd string brawlers + fighters, they might do better compared to Condors, as you bring their flux stats into play in the beginning, spreading damage out, and giving the other ships more breathing room. Or they might fly in front of their allies and get blown up while blocking shots. Would definitely need testing.
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Topic: 0.9.1a Balance Testing Case Study: Condor (Read 12505 times)