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Author Topic: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.  (Read 1891 times)

HavokUnit

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I've been theory crafting, sketching concepts and working on dialogue for a mod that I'm going to start working on in the coming week.

If anyone is familiar with the command and conquer series then you'll know who the brotherhood of nod is and their charismatic leader Kane.
The only thing holding my back from starting this mod would be possible copyright issues or other issues it could bring. I realize that it could be considered transformative in nature as it's a non profit fan made project on a completely different game, but god knows EA could pull some douche-baggery.

So I guess my question is, has anyone who has made a mod based off of another game's theme or material had any run ins with potential copyright issues?
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2020, 12:57:41 AM »

I suspect lawyers disagree with me, but until you get any profits from releasing your work (you will distribute it for free, right?), and honestly refer to source and credit the copyrights owner company - it should be fine.

Again, lawyers probably disagree.

On the other hand - your work is free advertisement for their product, so it would be extremely stupid to sue you.
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Tartiflette

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Re: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2020, 01:43:23 AM »

Ah, the great internet myth of "it's free so I have every rights". You want to take copyrighted stuff from a litigious publisher that is currently trying to revive this specific IP? Yeah, I wouldn't be so sure about the soundness of that idea. You don't want to spend time working on something only to get a cease and desist letter? Then do something original, even if it is inspired by other material. Because while the risk is mild indeed, it's not 0.

And if you manage to get proper dialogs in the game, writing original stuff will be the easy part to boot.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 02:01:07 AM by Tartiflette »
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HavokUnit

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Re: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2020, 05:27:56 AM »

Ah, the great internet myth of "it's free so I have every rights". You want to take copyrighted stuff from a litigious publisher that is currently trying to revive this specific IP? Yeah, I wouldn't be so sure about the soundness of that idea. You don't want to spend time working on something only to get a cease and desist letter? Then do something original, even if it is inspired by other material. Because while the risk is mild indeed, it's not 0.

And if you manage to get proper dialogs in the game, writing original stuff will be the easy part to boot.

I've reached out to the permission and request team for EA via email and laid out the roadmap I have set and the assets/names of assets I would be using and sound effect for a certain weapon system as well as asking about using fan artist depictions of some of the characters. I hope I hear back from them soon, if I get the big fat negative I will more thank likely make a faction that is NOD inspired and leave it at that.
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Tartiflette

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Re: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2020, 06:04:31 AM »

Oftentimes a nod is better than an outright copy. For one it gives you the room to adapt stuff to the setting of the game as you see fit, and additionally people will be happy to get the reference instead of having it fed to them.

Good on you for reaching out. I tend to play it safe and avoid IPs altogether, but this is actually the right course of action.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 06:06:05 AM by Tartiflette »
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HavokUnit

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Re: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2020, 05:58:45 PM »

Oftentimes a nod is better than an outright copy. For one it gives you the room to adapt stuff to the setting of the game as you see fit, and additionally people will be happy to get the reference instead of having it fed to them.

Good on you for reaching out. I tend to play it safe and avoid IPs altogether, but this is actually the right course of action.

Unfortunately my request was denied as I would be using the likeness of or assets in another developers intellectual property.

So let this be a lesson to anyone that sees this, always ask permission first, this probably saves the dev a headache of having to react and follow through with a C&D on their content.
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Yunru

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Re: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2020, 06:11:03 PM »

Fun fact: That's their standard response, and also only applies if you use their assets (which you're not, as long as you avoid the Nod banner), or the likeness of them (see previous parenthesis).

Morrokain

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Re: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2020, 09:52:52 PM »

I suspect lawyers disagree with me, but until you get any profits from releasing your work (you will distribute it for free, right?), and honestly refer to source and credit the copyrights owner company - it should be fine.

Again, lawyers probably disagree.

On the other hand - your work is free advertisement for their product, so it would be extremely stupid to sue you.

Would it be stupid? Absolutely. Will they do it? Maybe. It really depends. Take Blizzard as an example in regards to legacy servers (though to be fair they got ad money in that case so there were damages).

In general, corporations are the epitome of greed and more often than not they're corrupt at certain levels. Even if their employees are not, the incentive of the entire organization as a whole is solely to "make more money, invest, and expand" and everything (including stonewalling anything that they even think could harm their brand/IP) revolves around that concept and that concept alone. It's how the entire corporate system is constructed pretty much from the ground up due to extremely fierce competition both from without and from within. Skim costs as much as possible while only making the smallest amount of people angry (even then there are actual metrics to "how mad" a person can get before they do anything - such as quit or lose productivity or form a union - and the idea is to ride the line as close as possible) while increasing profits as much as possible as well. Obviously not everyone who works for a corporation actively thinks along these lines, but the very rules/policies of the organization are set up to incentivize this and people often "job zone" and put blinders on in an attempt to do their job well and try and not think of the consequences as much as possible.

Even their "charity" - while often quite real - is only a scheme to literally buy the public's goodwill in order to get more people to recognize their brand or buy their product because "they're the good guys" - which is why they typically advertise their "charity of the month" like crazy... (it's literally how charity is often pitched in office meetings too - the actual human decency factor comes second to what can be sold to the shareholders to increase the value of their investment through better brand recognition). It's a sad fact of life, unfortunately.

I read up on a lot of the Supreme Court cases regarding copyright infringement from IP, etc, and I can tell you that corporations have gotten even legitimate work to be considered "copyright infringement" if the corporation is big enough and they can make a case for it. They oftentimes can also bend the existing law. (Seriously, the actual content creator was sued for publishing something similar after he left the company for example. Or take Disney preventing Mickey Mouse from becoming part of the common domain even when the law states it should- because it's still the most popular children IP by a huge margin over its competitors.)

This is because, for the most part, IP and copyright infringement is very much a legal gray area that is open to interpretation and circumstance case by case. Thing is, if the company really cares they will have better lawyers and probably win. Not always, but most of the time. Another part of the problem is that technological IP is fairly new in the grand scheme of things.

That being said, most companies don't sue for the sole reason of public outlook (again, see charity) but EA has shown in the past that it doesn't care much about public opinion so be careful about how you reference things. Just food for thought. I don't want to discourage you, but I want you to be informed of the overall risks. I seriously, and I mean seriously, doubt they would bother with an "inspired by" mod but definitely don't use any actual assets now that you have their official response. I'd even avoid the name Kane. Maybe actually just use Cain? They don't have a trademark on that obviously as it's a biblical name for crying out loud, but anything to avoid their overall attention would probably be for the best.
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HavokUnit

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Re: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2020, 10:54:51 PM »

Luckily I spent some time coming up with a new logo, going with a kinda same-ish story line. Sticking with the thematic style of the brother hood of nod like their color, play style and general goals. I think when I wrote the email to them I worded it absolutely awful, re-reading it made it sound like I was going to use direct rips of their assets, sound files and images. Should have told them I would be building all assets by hand and only using the likeness and names of the assets and not the assets themselves. But Tartiflette brought up points that made me want to do a faction inspired by Nod rather than a faction of Nod. I will probably still reference Nod in the lore behind the faction and in missions and do some other things to pay homage to the series but I think that's about as far as I'll go with that.
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ASSIMKO

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Re: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2020, 05:07:11 AM »

Congratulations on your initiative. Looking forward to seeing this mod come to life and test it out.
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Ced23Ric

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Re: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2020, 11:17:19 PM »

Luckily I spent some time coming up with a new logo, going with a kinda same-ish story line. Sticking with the thematic style of the brother hood of nod like their color, play style and general goals. I think when I wrote the email to them I worded it absolutely awful, re-reading it made it sound like I was going to use direct rips of their assets, sound files and images. Should have told them I would be building all assets by hand and only using the likeness and names of the assets and not the assets themselves. But Tartiflette brought up points that made me want to do a faction inspired by Nod rather than a faction of Nod. I will probably still reference Nod in the lore behind the faction and in missions and do some other things to pay homage to the series but I think that's about as far as I'll go with that.
"Inspired by..." always carries more energy than "Copied from..." - good on you. Looking forward to this.
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zeno

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Re: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2020, 10:55:16 AM »

IANAL

But consider the Renegade X mod, a complete (and faithful) remake of CNC: Renegade multiplayer mode, along with reusing a bunch of the assets.  They've been running for years and haven't gotten any blowback from EA.  Seems to me that even if EA changes their stance on mods of the CNC IP, they'll gonna have bigger fishes to go after before a Starsector mod.
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jeffg10

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Re: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2020, 12:32:20 PM »

I would like to posit that there's been a literal brotherhood of nod mod for cortex command since time in time in memoriam (2012 i think) and it hasn't been striken, taken down or litigated, but that's just my two cents.
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: Wanting to start a mod but worried about possible copyright issues.
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2020, 02:12:14 PM »

Well, a given case might not be actionable, but that has nothing to do with the legal rights. Sure, you might get away with it, but you might not, and it's a shame to put a bunch of unpaid labor into something only to have to take it down, so why not err on the safe side?

Regardless, kudos to the OP for going the pastiche route, you learn more that way.
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