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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Arma Armatura 1.2.3  (Read 21565 times)

HELMUT

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Re: [0.9.1a] ArmaA Robotics 1.1.4
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2020, 06:04:48 AM »

I can't answer for Kannon, but from my experience it's extremely easy to get wrecked by an unexpected missile or hellbore round. Keeping tracks of everything during small skirmishes is easy enough, but in a bigger battle when there's more missiles than usual, the slightest mistake usually mean an instant death. It doesn't help that i can't get my carrier to reliably repair me when i need it, sometimes the repair drone doesn't want to appears, even if the carrier is relatively far away from an enemy.


Anyway, i played a short campaign with the ArmaA Nexerelin start. The Einhander is pretty nice to fly, although i have to say it feels much more like a toy than an actual combat ship. While it's fairly mobile and not that fragile, it really lacks firepower. It works more like a heavy fighter than a frigate, very good against other fighters and other frigates, and occasional lightly armored destroyers. But that's it, it's relatively helpless against something with a modicum of armor. Yes, the Glaive is a thing specifically made for that, but the slow rate of fire and limited ammo merely makes it an "okay" weapon. An extremely good weapon for a fighter, but not really for a frigate, and in a campaign, i rapidly needed something that could deal some real damage.

This is where my biggest "issue" lies, and why i consider the Einhander a toy. It's nice to fly, it can fight, but it'll become obsolete the moment you have access to a halfway decent frigate. Mind you, i'm not asking for a buff, the Einhander being just a playable fighter is fine. But given its is the poster boy and "main" content of the mod, it allows for only very little replayability. Of course, it's a fairly young mod, with limited content yet, but in it's current stat, i wouldn't keep it in my folder now that the novelty factor is fading.

Of course, there's more to the Einhander. In my campaign, i got a few carriers loaded with Cataphracts to deal with the bigger targets. The Kouto, while tanky, wasn't very helpful when it came to do the actual killing. I much preferred the bomber equivalent for a cataphract, the Ilorin, which is also fairly tanky in its own right. As for the Valken, i suspect they would combo wonderfully with EMP fighters, alas i couldn't find any in my campaign, so they were pretty much cannon fodder. I couldn't get my hands on a Bihander, but i still tested it in the mission and, well, one or two of those would have made my early game much easier.

As for the Einhander playstyle, i have personally been using it in melee combat. Yes, actual melee. Being a fighter, it can stand over a target, where there's usually no shield coverage, i used the Glaive at point blank range to disable engines, and finished my target with the overcharged Juno. Very good to deal with high-tech frigates like Remnants that usually lacks armor but compensate with a strong shield. Of course, hovering over a target also comes with risks, like a point blank AM blaster shot to the face. Which is why is outfitted the Pila drone with a ion cannon to declaw my targets before i can directly engage.


I won't lie that the whole playable fighter thing left a bit perplexed. You went through many hoops to make it work, and it does, it's quite impressive. My main question is : Why? Why is it a fighter and not a normal ship? Am i missing something important? I personally can't find an issue with the way things are currently working. Well, maybe the whole carrier reloading/repairing thing being a tad clunky. Also some potential conflict with other mods scripts, nobody enjoy playing with the spectre of a sudden crash hanging above them.

But overall, it works. I would be interested in seeing more content from this mod. A Tri-tachyon equivalent to the Einhander, some hacked together Luddic Cataphract... There's many possibilities for expanding the mod.

However.

The whole playable fighter shitck might make the whole ordeal trickier than for a standard mod. Yes, i would eventually love to fly a pilotable mech with a custom loadout. A chaingun in your right hand? Sure. A phase lance (phase blade?) in your left? Awesome. Hammers in the shoulder pods? Of course i'd like that (just throwing exemples here). The problem is : it wouldn't work really well for a playable fighter. Because hovering over a target with custom guns, or even powerful built-ins is bound to be a balance headache. The player could mercilessly exploit it, like i did, or worse, being on the receiving end of it. That issue can be countered by only allowing relatively weak weapons on a playable cataphract, similar to the Einhander, but then it would be also be cursed with the "toy syndrome", limiting its usefulness.


I don't know what's your roadmap for the future of the mod, so maybe all my rambling is irrelevant. Still, if you're planning to add new content, i'd be curious to see you attempt something more "normal" like a non fighter mech, a bit like the Tahlan Regalias. From there, you can see whether or not it works, and if it's worth expanding upon. So yeah, i'll keep an eye open on your future updates.
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shoi

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Re: [0.9.1a] ArmaA Robotics 1.1.4
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2020, 08:50:20 AM »

Wow! HELMUT, thanks for the feedback!!

Quote
I won't lie that the whole playable fighter thing left a bit perplexed. You went through many hoops to make it work, and it does, it's quite impressive. My main question is : Why? Why is it a fighter and not a normal ship? Am i missing something important?

So originally, it was a frigate before I decided to go all in on the current approach.
TL;DR version is that it was to alleviate a lot of problems the AI would have had otherwise; From what I had observed, making the ship a fighter was really the only way to avoid them. To name a few issues, beforehand Capital Ships (or pretty much any ship) would drop everything to focus and keep the ship in front of it, exposing themselves to heavier armed targets in the process, bomber wings would fire missiles like Atropos' at it (when there was virtually no chance it'd connect, outside of luck..the most egregious of these would be piranha's trying to carpet bomb it)

I guess that isn't exactly gamebreaking, but the other problem was with weapons using custom AI: MesoTronIK pointed out the issues that implementation would have had with some weapons in THI on like the very first page I think. So sunken cost fallacy, etc etc -  I just went and reworked everything. It was a pain to do, but amazingly, yeah, it works pretty well.

I had to take the Einhander behind the shed with a nerf bat several times afterwards to accomodate for that because of changes in AI behavior it caused, and like you mentioned, powerful weapons + being able to fly over stuff is troublesome. That may be the reason it's loadout is kind of anemic nowadays. It did have a modular slot at one point, but I removed it since it just didn't mesh aesthetically, and came up with the Pila instead.

It's definately a tricky thing to balance. I've tried to do things in a way such that PD became the eminent threat to the ship, while most everything can be dodged (hence the super low HP and armor) but if you're getting hit by hellbores, I might need to increase the time dilation effect.

The repair drone operates based off the "Enemy Presence" status that pops up and stops CR countdown, and if it's that inconsistent, its probably to wide to use for this. I think i'll try to use a smaller, set radius to check for enemies instead.

This is super helpful, by the way. My experience has been a bit different, ranging from dying to hounds to killing things 4x its weight in DP. At the same time I invest heavily in combat skills and I think that may have been influencing my balance approach. It really helps to know how othe people are faring.

Quote
But overall, it works. I would be interested in seeing more content from this mod. A Tri-tachyon equivalent to the Einhander, some hacked together Luddic Cataphract... There's many possibilities for expanding the mod.

However.

The whole playable fighter shitck might make the whole ordeal trickier than for a standard mod. Yes, i would eventually love to fly a pilotable mech with a custom loadout. A chaingun in your right hand? Sure. A phase lance (phase blade?) in your left? Awesome. Hammers in the shoulder pods? Of course i'd like that (just throwing exemples here). The problem is : it wouldn't work really well for a playable fighter. Because hovering over a target with custom guns, or even powerful built-ins is bound to be a balance headache. The player could mercilessly exploit it, like i did, or worse, being on the receiving end of it. That issue can be countered by only allowing relatively weak weapons on a playable cataphract, similar to the Einhander, but then it would be also be cursed with the "toy syndrome", limiting its usefulness.



I don't know what's your roadmap for the future of the mod, so maybe all my rambling is irrelevant. Still, if you're planning to add new content, i'd be curious to see you attempt something more "normal" like a non fighter mech, a bit like the Tahlan Regalias. From there, you can see whether or not it works, and if it's worth expanding upon. So yeah, i'll keep an eye open on your future updates.

Yeah, I came to this conclusion too around the time I removed the modular slot. A huge part of SS is definately the ability to customize and alter loadouts, and that really isn't a thing you can do to a full degree with something with the characteristics/size of a fighter, or at least not without some difficulty, or using hidden weapons. The next one i'm working on is much larger and will operate like normal ships, and hopefully it will be a lot of fun to use. Right now it's still in the early stages, but hopefully I can get it and some other interesting things in soon. Thanks for trying my mod and the detailed insight!!  :)
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TrickyTidy

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Re: [0.9.1a] ArmaA Robotics 1.1.4
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2020, 06:24:30 AM »

I'm guessing we can't use the Bit drones on anything but the 'armaa_einhander' hull? I've been tinkering with making skins for the Einhander and it looks like it breaks changing the drones' weapons. The fake Bit module doesn't appear in the refit screen.
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shoi

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Re: [0.9.1a] ArmaA Robotics 1.1.4
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2020, 07:18:13 AM »

I'm guessing we can't use the Bit drones on anything but the 'armaa_einhander' hull? I've been tinkering with making skins for the Einhander and it looks like it breaks changing the drones' weapons. The fake Bit module doesn't appear in the refit screen.

hmm, there's nothing in the script that would stop the module from appearing.
I'm gonna assume you duplicated and renamed the hull;  did you create a new variant for it as well? Modules are assigned by variant files, so If that's the case, it may not be showing up because the new hull doesn't have the fake module specified in a variant file.
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TrickyTidy

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Re: [0.9.1a] ArmaA Robotics 1.1.4
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2020, 10:13:15 AM »

hmm, there's nothing in the script that would stop the module from appearing.
I'm gonna assume you duplicated and renamed the hull;  did you create a new variant for it as well? Modules are assigned by variant files, so If that's the case, it may not be showing up because the new hull doesn't have the fake module specified in a variant file.

Cool, thanks! It was the .variant file after all.
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krech

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Re: [0.9.1a] ArmaA Robotics 1.1.4
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2020, 12:53:53 PM »


Quote
I won't lie that the whole playable fighter thing left a bit perplexed. You went through many hoops to make it work, and it does, it's quite impressive. My main question is : Why? Why is it a fighter and not a normal ship? Am i missing something important?

dont listen him, i tired of hundred mods with BIIIIG SHIPS YAAAAAA. Its very satisfying to play with small fighter or ship and play own role in big fight. While big ships fighitin each other u do own job, like supportin big ships, defending it from bombers and stuff as tiny piece in ur fleet war machine. Very thnks for the mod, hope will be more playable as pilot mechs and weapons to refit them.
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zurium

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Re: [0.9.1a] ArmaA Robotics 1.1.4
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2020, 04:49:02 AM »

hi!, dont know why but causes a null exception when i try to fly the fighter in simulation (the sighter ship, not one of the wings) cheers!
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shoi

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Re: [0.9.1a] ArmaA Robotics 1.1.4
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2020, 09:37:00 PM »


Quote
I won't lie that the whole playable fighter thing left a bit perplexed. You went through many hoops to make it work, and it does, it's quite impressive. My main question is : Why? Why is it a fighter and not a normal ship? Am i missing something important?

dont listen him, i tired of hundred mods with BIIIIG SHIPS YAAAAAA. Its very satisfying to play with small fighter or ship and play own role in big fight. While big ships fighitin each other u do own job, like supportin big ships, defending it from bombers and stuff as tiny piece in ur fleet war machine. Very thnks for the mod, hope will be more playable as pilot mechs and weapons to refit them.

Thanks! The next thing I have in store is large frigate/small destroyer-sized, so its not toooo big  :)

hi!, dont know why but causes a null exception when i try to fly the fighter in simulation (the sighter ship, not one of the wings) cheers!

Do you have a crashlog you could post here? :)
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Caymon Joestar

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Re: [0.9.1a] ArmaA Robotics 1.1.4
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2020, 02:54:32 AM »


Quote
I won't lie that the whole playable fighter thing left a bit perplexed. You went through many hoops to make it work, and it does, it's quite impressive. My main question is : Why? Why is it a fighter and not a normal ship? Am i missing something important?

dont listen him, i tired of hundred mods with BIIIIG SHIPS YAAAAAA. Its very satisfying to play with small fighter or ship and play own role in big fight. While big ships fighitin each other u do own job, like supportin big ships, defending it from bombers and stuff as tiny piece in ur fleet war machine. Very thnks for the mod, hope will be more playable as pilot mechs and weapons to refit them.

Ehhh, from what I have experienced using it so far, while it’s possible to use and not die with in small battles, in larger engagements, it quickly falls off to even normal frigates due to the fact that they can for most of them can at least take a hit, the einhander while yes, small and nimble, can not evade every missile, and the process of trying to repair can be quite the chore as

A: You have to have a carrier that doesn’t have a enemy around it, which is quite honestly in my opinion, a *** to do as enemies frigate/destroyers will circle around and try to attack your fleet from behind

B: from what I noticed so far, the repair drone repair rate seems pretty damn slow that it took the drone multi trips to even finish repairing the hull, I’m not sure it was even repaired the armor as the ui didnt seem to reflect it.

C. Quick question, when resupplying with cr, does it also restore the ppt? I feel like if it also did that, it would make the player not need to go back to the carrier so often to restock on cr in long battles
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TrickyTidy

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Re: [0.9.1a] ArmaA Robotics 1.1.4
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM »

My experience is similar to what others have posted. Survivability definitely becomes an issue in larger battles. It either becomes so hectic that you're brought down by constant little hits or you just eat a missile and it's all over.

Cranking the time-dilation can help facilitate better dodging, but a full phase that allows players to avoid damage completely would be the most effective. I understand it's kind of a cop out though as it changes the Einhander's playstyle drastically.

On the topic of the repair/ammo drones, I did enjoy frantically dodging in combat to reach a drone to get ammo/repairs. The drones are like power-ups in that sense. I do also agree though that they're somewhat few and far between.
Some suggestions I have are to either get them to appear more often so the Einhander has more power-ups to grab. Or create a 'combat support' drone that offers both additional ammo and a smaller instantaneous repair during combat. Then buff the out-of-combat repair and ammo drones to give a larger repair over time and more ammo respectively. While I think using the drones to extend the survivability of the Einhander is fun, I think the lull between retreating to resupply/repair and getting back into the fight is a little long.
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Mr_8000

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Re: [0.9.1a] ArmaA Robotics 1.1.4
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2020, 07:34:18 AM »

I don't know what this is, but I'm willing to bet I shouldn't have it

Spoiler
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shoi

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Re: [0.9.1a] ArmaA Robotics 1.2.1RC2
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2021, 05:20:24 PM »


[Download V1.2.1RC2]
Save compatible, but new game is required for the new star systems


Added two new fighter wings and a ship, a new star system(Gamlin) where all items from the mod are sold at high rep with indies, and nexerelin starts:
-Valken-X: Mini ACG & Plasma Blade
-Recordbreaker: Interceptor with built-in EMP emitter
-Altagrave: Big mech

Also, I made some tweaks to Einhander so repair drones always appear when near a carrier with no enemies within 2000 su

Changelog
V1.2RC2
--------
-Removed Omni-Shields from Altagrave's legs, increased armor by 200, HP by 200
-Gave Altagrave[C] a Default Role so that it actually appears in markets
-All projectiles weren't properly being tallied when absorbed, corrected issue
-Karma increases much faster, increased threshold as a result: 1000->2000
-Reduced amount of projectiles generated from Karma: 15->10
-Altagrave System projectiles DMG: 250->200
V1.2RC1
----------

New Ship: Altagrave
- 12DP with modules that increase speed while they are intact;
- 1x Medium Synergy, 1x Small Universal
- 2x built-ins
   -Vajra
      energy-based projectile weapon with some missile characteristics, has slight homing capability, can be intercepted
- System: K.A.R.M.A
   -Absorbing projectiles increases "Enlightenment"
   -Enlightenment grants a scaling bonus to Weapon RoF and Flux Cost Reduction as damage absorbed increases, up to 30%
   -Exceeding/reaching max karma generates an explosion that damages anything within 300 su and flings homing projectiles
      -Projectiles will home in on selected target after a few second delay, otherwise random target is chosen
   -Bonus is lost once karma is maxed.

New Mission: Battle of Meshan 1A9
- Survive against waves of redacted

Nexerelin:
-Added start with Altagrave
-Added basic BP to all starts

New Wing: Valken-X - 10 OP
System: Overboost
   - brief, but significant increase to speed + manuverability for 1 second
- Assault Chaingun(F), 50% potency of original ACG fired in 5 shot bursts
- LS-99 MOONLIGHT, short-range plasma blade
- Wing Size: 2
- Not very effective vs shields, but overboost + the LS-99 makes it lethal at close range and an effective dogfighter

New Wing: Recordbreaker - 10 OP
- Fast interceptor with weak EMP emitter suited for anti-fighter/missile and escort. Best paired with other fighter types
- Wing Size: 2

-New Star System: Gamlin
-New Meshan, Size 5 Colony
-Has special submarket accesible at high indie rep that sells all cataphracts, rarely Einhander or Altagrave will appear

-Adjusted spawn rate of all wings, they should actually appear occassionally in various fleets

Einhänder:
- fixed fx bug caused during interaction with some approlight systems
- fixed crash caused when running simulation during armaa mission with Einhänder
- Phase Damper Field Time Dilation: 60%->55%
- Phase Damper Field Beam Resistance: 50%->55%
- Phase Damper Field Base Resistance: 40%->35%
- Vulcan Cannon Turn Rate: 90 -> 75
- AS Glaive Range was 650, when should have been 550->550
- Einhander receives damage bonus as flux level increases when using ship system. Exceeding flux leads to overload
- Repair Drones will now always deploy so long as there are no enemies within 2000 su

--Fighters--
-General all-around buffs. They should be more effective overall

Valken:
-Fixed bug that prevented valken from ever spawning in fleets, or appearing in simulator
HP: 300->450
Armor: 15->30
Flux Dissipation:60->80

Kouto:
DR-79 Plasma Gatling: 10 -> 15 DMG
   -Bullet Size reduced by 50%

Overshield granted 10x damage resistance instead of 5x, corrected to proper value
Increased flux stats for overall improved shield efficiency
Reduced Seeker flare count to 1
HP-> 425-> 500
Armor -> 50-> 35
Max Flux -> 700
Dissipation ->  150
OP:12->13
Refit Time: 25->15

Ilorin:
OP: 12->14
Crew Size: 1->3

-removed Juno. Mk III from drop table

-added armaa_ prefix to all ship systems

Known Bugs:
- Einhänder damage weighting with Starship Legends gets weird in some scenarios, will be fixed in next version of legends
[close]

« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 06:21:31 PM by shoi »
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Agreion

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Re: [0.9.1a] Arma Armatura 1.2.1RC2
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2021, 06:37:28 AM »

Hi there, I can't seem to access the posted download link; the redirection to tinyurl is giving me an error. Anyway, the Altagrave looks cool to fly around, this mod reminds me of a mobile game called Iron Saga. From what I see, Arma Armatura is slowly building up its roster, perhaps it will turn into a full blown faction soon.

Looking forward to more mechas in space!
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 06:39:41 AM by Agreion »
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shoi

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Re: [0.9.1a] Arma Armatura 1.2.1RC2
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2021, 10:36:52 AM »

Update; added a medim energy, and a few buffs and nerfs
Changelog 1.2.2RC2
V1.2.2RC2
--------
Nex:

-removed random folder in mission folder

-Super Ship start: Replaced Altagrave and Condor with Altagrave[C] and Wayfarer
   -Differences between the two are mostly superficial, [C] has built-in Op Center and is more suitable as a flag

-Added Ground Support bonus for new fighter wings. Non-cataphract fighters were conferring additional bonus if a single cataphract wing was added, this was fixed.

-Added Juno Mk. III, a modular medium fire support beam cannon. Available on New Meshan, may need further tweaks

Altagrave:
-Standard Altagrave now has very low chance of appearing in scavenger fleets

-Adjusted base variant auto groups

-Karma Seekers: Damage type to Kinetic
   -reverted damage back to 250 from 200

-Added additional small hybrid mount; increased OP by 5

-Altagrave should be less inclined to suicidally charge at things 2x its size or into swarms of enemies, not 100% what caused this issue, may have some relation to weapon loadout

-Added normal maps for gLib support and shadow effect to some turrets/decos

-Limb animation now slightly affected by turning/strafing left or right

-new head sprite for Altagrave[C]

Vajra:
   -Drastically reduced tracking effect of Vajra, should be much easier to hit smaller ships, both under player and AI control
   -Increased projectile speed: 950->1000

-increased armor on all modules to match parent hull armor: 400->450
   - Won't do much against heavy hits, but will help mitigate issue with getting papercut to death by fighters

-swapped active flare launcher to Low-Grade EMP Emitter (Same system as Recordbreaker) on backpack module

-Modules now mirror the hullmods applied to the parent ship

-Increased OP of all modules to 1000 to prevent any unintended behavior caused by hullmods that readd themselves in certain scenarios

-Added hullmod describing modules and their effects

-Altagrave[C] would never spawn in markets with modules, is now a seperate hull instead of being skin-based [Used exact same ID for the hull that was used by the skin file, so save compatible; tested and confirmed myself]

Recordbreaker:
Armor: 45->30
HP: 450->400

Valken-X:
-Fixed deco weapon being listed in Armaments
-Plasma Blade was set at an ammo of 1, removed ammo limitation

Bihänder:
-Altered Juno Mk. II for better visual consistency with other Juno family weapons

[close]
Hi there, I can't seem to access the posted download link; the redirection to tinyurl is giving me an error. Anyway, the Altagrave looks cool to fly around, this mod reminds me of a mobile game called Iron Saga. From what I see, Arma Armatura is slowly building up its roster, perhaps it will turn into a full blown faction soon.

Looking forward to more mechas in space!

Thanks!

being reminded of Iron Saga isn't a real suprise there, I used it as a reference for altagrave's arm. That game in general is a good source of ideas!

I updated a main page with the link to the new update, but let me know if thie download in this post dont wokr either
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 07:20:45 PM by shoi »
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shoi

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Re: [0.9.1a] Arma Armatura 1.2.2RC2
« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2021, 07:05:28 PM »

sorry for double post, but another update..this one is aiming to improve AI performance with altagrave. Lot of buffs in short order, may end up reversing some or compensating in another way
Changelog 1.2.3
V1.2.3
---------
-Altagrave's built in hullmod is now properly hidden and wont be found as loot

-Attempted to improve AI performance with Altagrave:
   -Generally speaking, Alta is flux hungry, and wont fire main gun after a certain threshold
   -AI cannot perceive that modules are important to its survival, very often eats hits to the side of modules that easily could have been avoided by a player as a result

   -Converted Front Shield to Omni Shield
      -Omni Shield doesnt extend to some parts of the legs, for now this is intentional
   -Increased collision radius 67->100
   -increased shield radius-> 67->90
   -base flux: 5500->5700
   -base dissipation: 350->360
   -Shield Efficiency: 0.7->0.66
   -Vajra flux/shot: 120->110

-cr recovery %/day: 8%->6%
[close]
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 10:36:11 PM by shoi »
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