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Author Topic: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game  (Read 1334 times)

baxt

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What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« on: June 16, 2020, 12:26:32 AM »

This post is going to be somewhat tongue in cheek but it's just a few things I've learned being brand new to the game, clearly I have no idea what I'm doing but this is the path the game has lead me down so far

Any fleet using more than 2 supplies a day is unacceptable

Any weapon with less than 1000 range is also unacceptable, the plasma cannon is an exception range is king in space games

Ballistic point defense does literally nothing, if 6 missile are flying at me 6 are hitting

After the first 5 or so bounties of a new playthrough the carriers start showing up and make bounties close to impossible

Enemy carrier AI is pretty good, friendly carrier AI is pretty bad I always have to hit tab and give them a target otherwise they just float away from combat not doing anything

Having a limited amount of Command Points is a strange feature that makes me not want to use them at all

The rock paper scissors style of damage has lead me to mostly using energy weapons, I would much rather have 100% of my damage 100% of the time

Maneuverability wins, it's pointless having a tanky ship that just has to sit there getting shot much better to be able to move even if you have a paper hull

You have to pay officers every month, better to fire them right away than have them eat up my credits

Outfitting a ship for the AI is hard since it will never use it correctly

The min/maxer in me needs a planet with 100% hazard, farmland, ore and ruins and has to be close otherwise I will never establish a colony I've yet to find a perfect one and actually set up a colony I'm not sure I ever will

Surveyed one planet, surveyed them all

Frigate and Destroyer combat is fun cruiser combat is a slog

Missiles are a waste of Ordnance points, they miss or get shot down and run out of ammo better to leave the mounts empty and get more vents or a hull mod

LP Lasher with 2x light needlers and 3x LMGs is the most fun you can have in a video game

Phase ships make me want to cry and should be deleted

The early game when it's a struggle is a lot of fun, massive fleet fights not so much


That's about all I've learned in my hours of playtime so far it's clearly incorrect because I keep losing half my ships but I'm still having fun if anyone wants to correct me on a all of this I would happily take some advice





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Grievous69

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Re: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2020, 01:06:56 AM »

Just to quickly point out couple of things:

- Personally I'd say speed is most important, since you can dictate every fight if yours is higher, range is pretty important too tho

- Yes small ballistic PD options are worse than energy ones but Flak Cannon are the best PD in the game, especially the Dual version

- Don't treat this as an RTS and give commands willy nilly, they're more like suggestions for your fleet

- I don't think the combat system is really rock, paper, scissors. You just have different tools for different jobs. The more you play, the more you'll see how energy weapons aren't that great (except the large ones, those kick ass)

- Good god please don't fire officers, they massively increase the combat strength of your fleet, they aren't even that expensive...

- Autofit is meh, if you want a ship to be decent in AI hands don't overflux it with weapons, be modest with their builds

- Missiles are sometimes very powerful, they can really turn things around if you have lots of them

- Phase ships are countered by fighters and beams (or any fast projectile weapon honestly)
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Megas

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Re: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2020, 06:02:01 AM »

Any weapon with less than 1000 range is also unacceptable, the plasma cannon is an exception range is king in space games
Yes, I am not a fan of weapon ranges in this game.  They are too short.

I miss the original sensors that extended your shot range instead of reducing the enemies' shot range.  Our ships are firing guns, not mecha or gundams beating each other with metal sticks like in a fighting game.

This is one reason why I like to pilot Paragon.  It can somewhat snipe effectively with lances plus Advanced Targeting Core.  Somewhat because its range is only long compared to other ships, its attack can still fit on the screen if your screen is big enough.

I kind of wish fog-of-war range was expanded.  It is annoying that I cannot target-lock enemy ships on the screen because they are beyond fog-of-war, even though I can clearly see them on my screen.

Re: ballistic PD
Machine guns are unreliable at anti-missile.  It is primarily an assault weapon that has PD as a secondary role.  Vulcan is the best small short-range PD available in the game, and it is somewhat reliable.  Flak is the best ballistic PD.  Devastator is mostly an anti-frigate/anti-destroyer weapon that can backup your other PD at times.  If you think ballistic PD is bad, energy PD is even worse.  The only one good out-of-the-box is the small burst PD.  Other small beam PD need skills or hullmods to be good, and heavy burst/Paladin are flux hogs.

Re: energy weapons
Most of them are mediocre.  They have terrible range and efficiency.  Generally, they get used because ships cannot use better stuff.

Re: other
Officers are great!  At the very least, you can combine them with Fleet Logistics (which is a no-brainer skill for you to take) and put them on ships that you cannot afford Reinforced Bulkheads on.  How many officers you should have varies on your fleet composition and your battle map size.  Personally, I would like to have at least six officers.

Quote
The min/maxer in me needs a planet with 100% hazard, farmland, ore and ruins and has to be close otherwise I will never establish a colony I've yet to find a perfect one and actually set up a colony I'm not sure I ever will
You probably will not find a single planet with all of the resources you need.  Assuming you have Industrial Planning 2, you need +1 in ores and volatiles to meet demand, maybe 0 for organics, maybe -1 for food.  Planets with enough ore for self-sufficiency are limited to high hazard worlds like (cyro)volcanics or high-gravity (habitable) planets.  Any farmland on any planet that has it should be good enough.

The lowest hazard possible is 50%, terran with mild climate.  Low hazard worlds are best for farming and build high maintenance industries like fuel production or heavy industry.

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Missiles are a waste of Ordnance points, they miss or get shot down and run out of ammo better to leave the mounts empty and get more vents or a hull mod
I generally agree.  However, some ships need missiles to perform adequately or else they are under par too much.  High-tech ships that cannot use ballistics have two options:  1) Cram as many sabots as they can hold (plus Expanded Missile Racks) to brawl effectively, or 2) leave most mounts empty, max out flux capacity, dissipation, and shield efficiency.  Onslaught probably wants Annihilator Pods for more firepower at first contact with the enemy.

There is one good standout:  Locusts with Expanded Missile Racks.  That is enough ammo for several minutes of sustained fire, and it is reliable (hard to dodge or stop with PD) and will murder small ships and severely damage large ships that lost armor.

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Phase ships make me want to cry and should be deleted
Afflictor, Shade, and Harbinger make me cry because the AI is totally incompetent at using them, which means they are only good as player-piloted strike bomber.  At least Afflictor with Reapers is an unfair one-shot item like Ultima V's glass sword.  Shade is useless when I have Afflictor instead.  Harbinger is okay at sweeping enemy frigates and destroyers, and cheaper to deploy than Aurora (and more forgiving to use than Afflictor with AM Blasters).

Doom, on the other hand, is a great ship.  AI uses it well, and it is fun to pilot at times.

That said, fighting against phase ships are annoying.  Sometimes, I need to micromanage my fleet to prevent enemy phase ships from exploiting quirks of default AI behavior.

Early game is a hell I want to get out of as quickly as possible.  I like endgame most, except for excessive capital spam against anything that is not an Ordos.  Problem with capital spam is I need capital (or Spark Drover) spam too so that AI cannot cower and outlast my fleet in a stall war.  I want to be the one that can outlast the enemy in a stall war if the AI wants to play that game.
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Maeleth

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Re: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2020, 07:49:45 AM »

Is this an ultimate troll post? You're wrong at every single point, friend.
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baxt

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Re: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2020, 07:58:30 AM »

Is this an ultimate troll post? You're wrong at every single point, friend.

Did you miss the part where I said this post in tongue in cheek and I have 20 hours in the game? It was more a joke on what seems like the best options after such little playtime and if you want to correct some of this go right ahead I'm happy to listen
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Maeleth

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Re: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2020, 09:09:37 AM »

Did you miss the part where I said this post in tongue in cheek and I have 20 hours in the game? It was more a joke on what seems like the best options after such little playtime and if you want to correct some of this go right ahead I'm happy to listen

Sure, always happy to help. Let us get started:

1) Any fleet using more than 2 supplies a day is unacceptable
After beating tutorial you gain 15k/month stipend, this alone is enough to sustain a medium sized fleet while doing absolutely nothing. Add a few salvage ships to your fleet and forget about buying supplies basically forever.

2) Any weapon with less than 1000 range is also unacceptable, the plasma cannon is an exception range is king in space games
Any weapon above 450 range is A-okay as long you're not dueling bigger ship. As a general rule, 1000 range guns are dedicated support/suppression ones with terrible DPS. The most powerful guns have 400-700.

3) Ballistic point defense does literally nothing, if 6 missile are flying at me 6 are hitting
Vulcan is the strongest anti-missile PD. Kinetic guns kinda suck, but still are more or less effective against shielded fighters. Plus their flux cost is almost negligible.

4) After the first 5 or so bounties of a new playthrough the carriers start showing up and make bounties close to impossible
Carriers can't deal any damage to bigger ships if you have a half-decent PD coverage. The real trouble are capital ships and cruisers in MASSIVE numbers.

5) Enemy carrier AI is pretty good, friendly carrier AI is pretty bad I always have to hit tab and give them a target otherwise they just float away from combat not doing anything
The AI is the same for both parties, the only thing affecting fighter behavior is Fleet Doctrine. Aggressive/reckless AI (or officers) will prefer attacking, steady/cautious/timid are more concerned about protecting allied ships.

6) Having a limited amount of Command Points is a strange feature that makes me not want to use them at all
You can give infinite amount of commands for a single point, as long as the game is paused. Still not enough? Grab a skill, install a hullmod, capture a point.

7) The rock paper scissors style of damage has lead me to mostly using energy weapons, I would much rather have 100% of my damage 100% of the time
Energy weapons are jack-of-all trades, performing below average in every situation. You literally can't overflux a Radiant or strip armor from Onslaught with energy pew-pews. At least not until friendly CR hits 0% =/ Specialized damage is the only way to win flux wars and melee brawls.

8) Maneuverability wins, it's pointless having a tanky ship that just has to sit there getting shot much better to be able to move even if you have a paper hull
Most of the times, sure. Or you can rely on extremely long range alpha strikes, missiles, fighters and dominate fast paperboats like no tomorrow. It's not like AI is smart enough to kite you around and not rush forward under heavy fire.

9) You have to pay officers every month, better to fire them right away than have them eat up my credits
Officer is a force multiplier, making ships 2-3-4 times more effective. Not as good as having a few extra ships, but they do not slow you down, have no supply/fuel upkeep and also immortal.

10) Outfitting a ship for the AI is hard since it will never use it correctly
They are pretty competent with simple ship systems. Omen, Hammerhead, Sunder, Drover, Falcon/Eagle and a dozen more ships are more than okay in AI hands.

11) The min/maxer in me needs a planet with 100% hazard, farmland, ore and ruins and has to be close otherwise I will never establish a colony I've yet to find a perfect one and actually set up a colony I'm not sure I ever will
Every planet below 200 hazard is profitable, even without AI cores or skills. You don't need food or ore, and ruins are absolute garbage. The only thing that truly matters is accessibility bonus.

12) Surveyed one planet, surveyed them all
Not sure about that one. There are unique conditions, ruins and even small events with locals requesting trade and stuff.

13) Frigate and Destroyer combat is fun cruiser combat is a slog
Depends on a cruiser. Falcon, Doom, Apogee and Gryphon are extremely fun to fly. So are Conquest/Onslaught with their insane firepower and mobility systems.

14) Missiles are a waste of Ordnance points, they miss or get shot down and run out of ammo better to leave the mounts empty and get more vents or a hull mod
They suck by themselves, sure thing. You need to occupy enemy PD with something (fighters with flares, locusts, etc.) for them to be effective.

15) LP Lasher with 2x light needlers and 3x LMGs is the most fun you can have in a video game
SO builds are kinda ok against smaller fleets, but they cost a lot supplies in CR recovery and tend to die in any kind of prolonged combat. I've almost never used them after my first 5 or so hours in Hammerhead.

16) Phase ships make me want to cry and should be deleted
Default loadouts for phase ships are terrible, they cannot deal any real damage. Most of the time poor guys would simply float around, lose their CR and die due to engine malfunction.

17) The early game when it's a struggle is a lot of fun, massive fleet fights not so much
Both are great fun if fights are difficult and demanding in player skill department.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 09:11:19 AM by Maeleth »
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2020, 12:08:34 PM »

Any fleet using more than 2 supplies a day is unacceptable
-Am I the only one, who actually scavenge more supply, than consume? Seriously, couple salvage rigs + couple of freighters and tankers to store the loot - and forget your fleet actually consume something.

Any weapon with less than 1000 range is also unacceptable, the plasma cannon is an exception range is king in space games
-That is depend on a playstile. If you like this - feel free to pilot a Tach-artillery Paragon.

Ballistic point defense does literally nothing, if 6 missile are flying at me 6 are hitting
-Ballistic PD are fine. Energy PD sucks.

After the first 5 or so bounties of a new playthrough the carriers start showing up and make bounties close to impossible
-There are roughly two ways to ignore enemy fighter: good wide shields or speed and maneuverability. PD are secondary to that.

Enemy carrier AI is pretty good, friendly carrier AI is pretty bad I always have to hit tab and give them a target otherwise they just float away from combat not doing anything
-Ai are the same. Loadouts and officers are different. make some experiments.

Having a limited amount of Command Points is a strange feature that makes me not want to use them at all
-Well... Do not use them then... Not a big deal.

The rock paper scissors style of damage has lead me to mostly using energy weapons, I would much rather have 100% of my damage 100% of the time
-It is less rock-paper-scissors, than you think. You can use HE to overload a shields or kinetic to demage an armor. Sometimes it is even effective. And the energy is not that good as it looks on a paper. Some energy are beams, which are terrible against shield and armor despite hight DPS. Phase lance and tach lance are exeptions, because they are better armor crackers than some HE. And rapid-fire energy weapons, like pulse laser and autopulse thing are so ineffective against thick armor, so they are basically analog of kinetic... And that can be much longer, but the point is: rather rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock Game. Feel free to explore which weapon is good at.

Maneuverability wins, it's pointless having a tanky ship that just has to sit there getting shot much better to be able to move even if you have a paper hull
-Say that to mora and venture. Generally you are correct, but there always an exceptions.

You have to pay officers every month, better to fire them right away than have them eat up my credits
-Officers are money-savers. Level 20 officer with a good skills makes your ships 2-3 more battle capable, so you can be effective with a smaller fleet.

Outfitting a ship for the AI is hard since it will never use it correctly
-And what do you wish? Press "X" to win?

The min/maxer in me needs a planet with 100% hazard, farmland, ore and ruins and has to be close otherwise I will never establish a colony I've yet to find a perfect one and actually set up a colony I'm not sure I ever will
-That planet probably exist. But you do not need it. You need a system with a 2-3 semi-decent planets close to core, not a perfect lone planet on the edge.

Surveyed one planet, surveyed them all
-Just do not forget to install a surveying equipment to some of your logistic ships. Otherwise it does not worth it.

Frigate and Destroyer combat is fun cruiser combat is a slog
-Doom. There would be no further explanations.

Missiles are a waste of Ordnance points, they miss or get shot down and run out of ammo better to leave the mounts empty and get more vents or a hull mod
-Yeah, I can understand you. But you are wrong. Sometimes having an 2 OP reaper can help a lot. Simply because enemies would never vent close to your ship if you have reaper on board. And swarmed-alike missiles have decent ammo.

LP Lasher with 2x light needlers and 3x LMGs is the most fun you can have in a video game
-Doom. Again.

Phase ships make me want to cry and should be deleted
-DOOM!!!

The early game when it's a struggle is a lot of fun, massive fleet fights not so much
-You can have same fun soloing ordos.
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shrek_luigi

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Re: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2020, 12:54:27 AM »

there are only two situations where you'd want to fire an officer

1. personality doesn't line up with skills/intended role of the officer (cautious personality on a frontline ship/aggressive or reckless on a support ship)
2. you have mods installed and the officer's portrait is some straight-up weeb ***, eject that ****er into space
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Havoc

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Re: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2020, 03:54:26 AM »


Any weapon with less than 1000 range is also unacceptable, the plasma cannon is an exception range is king in space games


you should try to fly SO(Safety Overrides) Hammerhead, range is melee(450+)  but damage is great , speed is ok

alphastrike phaseships are also funny, the game slows down and you can sneak to the enemies back and unleash several torpedos into his engines

Quote
The min/maxer in me needs a planet with 100% hazard, farmland, ore

you can also make (a bit)money with 250% rich/ultrarich ore planet
but it is also babysitting vs pirates

easy money is to join a faction
my first time was after more than 100 hours and several runs

no problems to pay your officers,fuel and supply
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 03:58:46 AM by Havoc »
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Thaago

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Re: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2020, 08:55:18 AM »

For a bit I got into the habit of joining the Hegemony and settling in one of their systems right after the tutorial - sometimes there's decent planets just sitting in their larger systems. Gives income, free storage, and their patrols will help against pirates.
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Terethall

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Re: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2020, 09:25:12 AM »

there are only two situations where you'd want to fire an officer

1. personality doesn't line up with skills/intended role of the officer (cautious personality on a frontline ship/aggressive or reckless on a support ship)
2. you have mods installed and the officer's portrait is some straight-up weeb ***, eject that ****er into space
3. Personality: Timid
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Scorpixel

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Re: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2020, 08:22:53 PM »

there are only two situations where you'd want to fire an officer

1. personality doesn't line up with skills/intended role of the officer (cautious personality on a frontline ship/aggressive or reckless on a support ship)
2. you have mods installed and the officer's portrait is some straight-up weeb ***, eject that ****er into space
3. Personality: Timid
A timid officier is a once in a lifetime experience, his lifetime.
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ubuntufreakdragon

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Re: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2020, 07:04:23 AM »

there are only two situations where you'd want to fire an officer

1. personality doesn't line up with skills/intended role of the officer (cautious personality on a frontline ship/aggressive or reckless on a support ship)
2. you have mods installed and the officer's portrait is some straight-up weeb ***, eject that ****er into space
3. Personality: Timid
4. you found your 11th officer.
Spoiler
5. you are US president.
[close]

Any fleet using more than 2 supplies a day is unacceptable
Depends on your purse, having some shepherds early is a good idea, once you have a few colonies spiting money more than 20 supplies per day are perfectly ok.

Any weapon with less than 1000 range is also unacceptable, the plasma cannon is an exception range is king in space games
Install a targeting core on your ship.

Ballistic point defense does literally nothing, if 6 missile are flying at me 6 are hitting
Depends on what you which to stop, for me energy feels better against missiles while ballistics stop fighters better.
best PD is still killing the enemy.

After the first 5 or so bounties of a new playthrough the carriers start showing up and make bounties close to impossible
Well bounties are a midgame income source, btw. there are two types of bounties pirate and deserter, the pirate is quite easy, the deserter may have a full battle group with him.
If carriers are your sole issue take a fast ship with a Locust SRM against them.
But I have better Ideas for income:
- Colonies a ~100% hazard heavy industry colony close to the core or a cyrovolcanic mining colony with high hazard can be good money sources.
- Raiding for blueprints, every colony with heavy industry/orbital works can give you a few blue prints on raiding, just don't destabilize them too much. As you only get new blueprints learn all but the most valuable to force spawn this one on every raid.
- Building a starfortess next to a remnant nexus and farm AI-Cores, keep the alphas give the others to tri tach.
- deliver Wares missions, can be quite profitable, too and far less risky.

Enemy carrier AI is pretty good, friendly carrier AI is pretty bad I always have to hit tab and give them a target otherwise they just float away from combat not doing anything
Depends on officers.

Having a limited amount of Command Points is a strange feature that makes me not want to use them at all
Depending on your fleet an escort or rally command may do the trick.

The rock paper scissors style of damage has lead me to mostly using energy weapons, I would much rather have 100% of my damage 100% of the time
if you deal 100 energy damage the enemy takes 100 damage if you deal 50kinetic and 50high explosive damage your enemy takes 125 damage to either shields or hull.
Having some surplus kinetic damage is mostly a good idea.

Maneuverability wins, it's pointless having a tanky ship that just has to sit there getting shot much better to be able to move even if you have a paper hull
it's pointless having a lone tanky ship, as it will be overwhelmed if the enemy is at least a bit capable.
3 well designed Paragons together for example can shred though entire fleets.
Against Maneuverability/Phase I field beams and Carriers.
Against Carriers a fast Cruiser with a Lucus SRM helps or a better Carrier if theirs is scrap.
Against Tanky enemies I field carriers or even more tanky ships.

You have to pay officers every month, better to fire them right away than have them eat up my credits
Spoiler
Hello mr. president
[close]

Outfitting a ship for the AI is hard since it will never use it correctly
Depends on the outfit, really.

The min/maxer in me needs a planet with 100% hazard, farmland, ore and ruins and has to be close otherwise I will never establish a colony I've yet to find a perfect one and actually set up a colony I'm not sure I ever will
Don't care for hazard when planing a mining/farming colony.
Only care for hazard and ignore deposits when planing an industry colony.

Surveyed one planet, surveyed them all
Yes as long as you have some surveying equipment and enough time.
I additionally place a com relay in every system to access the market details of my colonies.

Frigate and Destroyer combat is fun cruiser combat is a slog
cruisers can be fun, e.g. I like the Apogee pack one Autopulse Laser and one Locus SRM leave every thing but the Missiles on autofire and launch the locust once you see your other weapons deal hull damage, remeber you can target one enemy via 'r'.

Missiles are a waste of Ordnance points, they miss or get shot down and run out of ammo better to leave the mounts empty and get more vents or a hull mod
Depends on missile and ship.
a fast torpedo frigate excels at pursuit battles.
you can order a full retreat once you are out of ammo and re-engage.
Some missile don't even have ammo though they are meant for support, at least use them.
And don't forget the Locus SRM.

LP Lasher with 2x light needlers and 3x LMGs is the most fun you can have in a video game
I prefer a solid ship (so I can drink my cup of tea during the battle) that kills everything at large ranges I fly Paragons.

Phase ships make me want to cry and should be deleted
If you can't handle them don't use them, if you face them beams and Carriers help.

The early game when it's a struggle is a lot of fun, massive fleet fights not so much
Adaptive tactics can help during prolonged fights, the ships you used first might not be the best against the enemies reinforcements.
If you have spare reinforcements, retreating an undamaged ship to call in another is a valid strategy.
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Aereto

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Re: What I've learned after my first 20 hours with the game
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2020, 07:15:07 PM »

Phase ships require different strategies to take them down, as they are the U-Boats of Starsector. If you cannot down them reliably, you may not be able to handle faction mods that use them or even time-acceleration related things. DPS beam weapons are the best ones to defeat them, while assault fighters force flux pressure but susceptible to Doom's mines.

Ballistic PD is not to be discounted when Energy PD has trouble with any missiles that saturate PD coverage like the Hurricane MIRV or Locust, though Energy range and burst damage may be able to stop Sabots before they reach frag range. Ballistic PDs can make quick work of a good chunk of missiles or torpedoes, where even Flak and Devastator Cannons help sweeping missiles and fighters out through AoE damage. Paladin PD and Devastator sound like a waste of a large slot until you face bomber/missile happy fleets. Or Tri Tachyon fleets with lots of Dooms and bomber Astrals.

All-Kinetic Luddic Path Lasher is definitely dangerous in a flux fight, but can't punch against more armored targets, especially ones piloted by officers carrying armor-related skills that reduce armor damage to single digit damage and low DPS. Harpoons, maybe, but only has so few ammo to use.
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