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Author Topic: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?  (Read 1273 times)

n1Z0

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What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« on: June 07, 2020, 02:33:09 PM »

I'm looking at hull mods that alter a value based on a ships hull size (eg:surveying equipment/expanded cargo holds etc), but I cannot for the life of me find this said 'hull size' that it references to anywhere in the ships statistics screen, which is where I would expect it to be.

Without this reference, it sometimes makes it difficult to calculate the bonuses without dropping the mods on and checking the changed statistic on the info screen, or even so far as being painful by having to surveying/salvaging a planet/wreck prior to knowing.

Some ships are relatively apparent (esp smaller ones) but once you start getting into larger ships/mods etc, it becomes a little less clear cut.


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DeMatt

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2020, 03:29:06 PM »

Um... "hull size" isn't a number, as such;  it's just referring to whether the ship is a "frigate", a "destroyer", a "cruiser", or a "capital ship".  For example, the Mercury, the Shepherd, the Dram, and the Wayfarer are all "frigates" - although realistically the Wayfarer is probably three times the size of the Mercury - and all four will receive the same effect from a particular hull mod.

If you don't recall which hull size a ship is, you can open up the Codex, look at the "Ship Hulls" category, and use the filters to look for your chosen ship.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2020, 03:47:27 PM »

The hullsize is set in the .ship file in the hulls folder
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Histidine

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2020, 06:09:01 PM »

Also once you're familiar with how much common hullmods cost between ship sizes, you can check a ship size category in the refit screen just by checking how much hullmods cost on it.
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SapphireSage

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2020, 08:00:00 PM »

Hullmods will always cost a specific amount to each of the four ship sizes. (for ex. Reinforced Bulkheads always costs 5/10/15/30 OP for the four ship sizes respectively).

Otherwise, some common but otherwise more inconsistent methods to tell ship sizes are fuel consumption (1/2/3/lots) or burn speed (10+/9/8/7-) but these can vary slightly into the other sizes with the exception of capital which always costs tons of fuel/maintenance to go anywhere with.
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n1Z0

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2020, 09:21:52 PM »

Thanks for these answers, each one will be very useful.

It'd be nice if the dev's would implement something a little more straightforward, ie: a reference in the ship tooltip regarding its hull size and/or an exact representation on the tooltip of the hullmod of the actual modification that the hullmod will make to the currently selected hull.

Till then these methods will all come in handy (until I eventually learn what each of the hulls are at a glance).
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2020, 10:42:22 PM »

JUST in case you wanted to know where to look IN GAME on how big/ what ship class a ship is, I made this gallery and underlined the locations of where the ship size info is located in game
https://imgur.com/a/u41moYq
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n1Z0

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2020, 02:34:11 AM »

JUST in case you wanted to know where to look IN GAME on how big/ what ship class a ship is, I made this gallery and underlined the locations of where the ship size info is located in game
https://imgur.com/a/u41moYq

That's terrific, and I thank you for your hard work.
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Terethall

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2020, 10:07:01 AM »

Also once you're familiar with how much common hullmods cost between ship sizes, you can check a ship size category in the refit screen just by checking how much hullmods cost on it.
I like to use the sensor range/profile for any purpose outside the refit screen. Although I always felt it was weird it didn't vary (except due to hull/d-mods) within class at all.
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iceball3

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2020, 12:25:28 PM »

JUST in case you wanted to know where to look IN GAME on how big/ what ship class a ship is, I made this gallery and underlined the locations of where the ship size info is located in game
https://imgur.com/a/u41moYq
It's handy, but for a lot of ships, the actual text for what you've mentioned don't actually mentioned the size category of a lot of the ships. See:


Barring intervening Dmods, you're better off in general checking stat changes with variable-size hmods. Some good ones for it are unstable injector, flux distributor, and heavy armor, as you can immediately see the changes in to the ship in the refit menu, accounting for any penalties or bonuses that is.
It's very unusual that "Is this ship size 1 2 3 4" is rather obscure when so many hullmods are interested in it.
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n1Z0

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2020, 01:03:53 PM »

JUST in case you wanted to know where to look IN GAME on how big/ what ship class a ship is, I made this gallery and underlined the locations of where the ship size info is located in game
https://imgur.com/a/u41moYq
It's handy, but for a lot of ships, the actual text for what you've mentioned don't actually mentioned the size category of a lot of the ships. See:


Barring intervening Dmods, you're better off in general checking stat changes with variable-size hmods. Some good ones for it are unstable injector, flux distributor, and heavy armor, as you can immediately see the changes in to the ship in the refit menu, accounting for any penalties or bonuses that is.
It's very unusual that "Is this ship size 1 2 3 4" is rather obscure when so many hullmods are interested in it.

Yeah, this was precisely my point. The omission of a 'hardline' hullsize in statistics seems like such an oversight considering the weight and relevance put upon its importance. Especially since the ambiguity of ship class names becomes even more cloudy once you start delving into mods.
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SCC

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2020, 02:28:31 PM »

In the campaign, a ship's unmodified sensor strength and profile are the same and they are 30, 60, 90 and 150 for frigates, destroyers, cruisers and capital ships respectively. In combat, a bigger ship doesn't necessarily equal higher range, and it certainly doesn't say anything about firepower that guns on that ship don't say by itself, so it's not immediately necessary to know what size category a ship is. There are many modifiers at play when it comes to ship. For the player side ships, if you bought them, you should know it already from hullmods and/or sensor stats.
By the way, recovering a ship and then scuttling it is equivalent to salvaging the ship immediately. It might make decision making when it comes to unknown ships a little easier.

n1Z0

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2020, 04:41:49 PM »

In combat, a bigger ship doesn't necessarily equal higher range, and it certainly doesn't say anything about firepower that guns on that ship don't say by itself, so it's not immediately necessary to know what size category a ship is.

Ship hull size is definitely relevant when it comes to installing hullmods, and therefore (identical weapon) ranges etc, are definitely modified respectively based on the hulls size.

Even sprite guides define ship sizes with a little more rigidity (even though they tend to have a lot more crossover in their naming conventions), eg:
Ship sizes (thanks to Valkyrial) , There is also an extended list on page 8 by Thule.
Spoiler
Arkship ~ 1750 - 2500 pix
Titan ~ 750 - 1750 pix
Dreadnought ~ 650 - 750 pix
Mothership/Supercarrier ~ 550 - 650 pix
Battleship/Battlecruiser ~ 350 - 550 pix
Superheavy Cruiser/Heavy Cruiser ~ 300 - 350 pix
Superheavy Destroyer/Cruiser ~ 225 - 300 pix
Heavy Destroyer/Destroyer ~ 175 - 225 pix
Heavy Frigate/Heavy Gunship ~ 125 - 175 pix
Frigate/Gunship/Heavy Corvette ~ 75 - 125 pix
Corvette ~ 50 - 75 pix
Heavy Fighter/Bomber ~ 35 - 50 pix
Fighter/Interceptor ~ 20 - 35 pix
Heavy Drone/Drone ~ 5 - 20 pix
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iceball3

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2020, 07:07:30 PM »

In the campaign, a ship's unmodified sensor strength and profile are the same and they are 30, 60, 90 and 150 for frigates, destroyers, cruisers and capital ships respectively. In combat, a bigger ship doesn't necessarily equal higher range, and it certainly doesn't say anything about firepower that guns on that ship don't say by itself, so it's not immediately necessary to know what size category a ship is. There are many modifiers at play when it comes to ship. For the player side ships, if you bought them, you should know it already from hullmods and/or sensor stats.
By the way, recovering a ship and then scuttling it is equivalent to salvaging the ship immediately. It might make decision making when it comes to unknown ships a little easier.
It's worth noting that the only way you'll come to understand that sensor range strictly relates to hullsize ingame, is if you've noticed that all ships of an approximate hullsize both share a base sensor range and also that their hullmods all treat them as same-sized ships. Which is something you'd know via the hullmods.
Guess it's useful as another line to look at, but it's still yet another many button presses to double-check a ship's size in relation to it's hullmod values. At the end of the day, I get the impression that a series of 1 to 4 dots in the corner of each ship display in fleet and refit menus would be enough to get the point across without having to re-remember what a bunch of secondary and tertiary values mean in relation to a ship.
No bad vibes to the devs, though, one of the big reasons why it's so easy to get lost is just how many well-designed and unique ships are in the game.  :)
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Terethall

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Re: What statistic defines a ships hull size ?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2020, 11:47:41 AM »

I get the impression that a series of 1 to 4 dots in the corner of each ship display in fleet and refit menus would be enough to get the point across without having to re-remember what a bunch of secondary and tertiary values mean in relation to a ship.

I'd especially want to see it in fleet-preview hover-overs as well. For a new player, it's hard to know what you're getting into with an enemy fleet, but a little indicator of hull size in the corner (opposite corner from the d-mod indicator?) would be helpful for play and also for learning the game. I've seen lots of newer players who think the little orange bars indicating d-mods are present are actually indicating rank or power or veterancy or something, and being scared of seeing a lot of them, since that and the officer icon are the only visual indicators added to the mini ship sprite in various fleet preview screens, and orange looks like "danger" and since officer presence is also a buff, it feels inconsistent. I'm not sure that showing D-mods there is even needed at all, since they don't have nearly as much impact on a ship's strength as the loadout it's working with, which isn't shown until you hover over the ship itself for full details, or the presence of an officer.

TL;DR: I like this. Do this instead of the little orange d-mod bars in fleet previews. It will provide more useful info and it will make the UI more intuitive and consistent.
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