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[Megas]

And when player builds commerce on his planets, the lazy indie bums charge 30% tariffs at the player's house!  Upkeep and tariffs just for +1 measly stability (for now).

[Goumindong]

And when player builds commerce on his planets, the lazy indie bums charge 30% tariffs at the player's house!  Upkeep and tariffs just for +1 measly stability (for now).

No. Its charging you a tariff for importing/exporting. Or are you not loading the goods onto a space ship fleet?

Tht being said the main value of commerce is not +1 stability its the ability to sell without having to haul everything to the core

I would say no, at least in the current releases.  Player never needs to shop at Open Market.

What is the point of the market if it is a total trap and the player is encouraged to avoid it at all costs?  Might as well not have it in the game.

Plenty of reasons, which we have been over many many times.

The easiest of which to mention is that trading without having your cargo scanned is valuable. And you have played enough to understand why. Or am i the only one who saves alpha cores?

It's really unrealistic for any government to make trade completely unprofitable by taxes. This just ensures ALL trade to happen on the black market, drasticly reducing the total tax income.
If a modern country would take ~3% taxes on every transaction without refund rules, this would be more income than all other currently used tax sources summed up.

1) it doesnt matter.
2) tariffs dont make trade unprofitable it makes dumb player trade unprofitable.
3) current traxation rates tend to be between 20 to 40 % of GDP depending on locality.. large tariffs are less common but like... more common than you seem to think

[Megas]

No. Its charging you a tariff for importing/exporting. Or are you not loading the goods onto a space ship fleet?

So I pay the freeloaders upkeep and tariffs?  All the more reason to keep the indie bums away.

If I look at the Open Market of ships sold at my colony, they are the same ships I have prioritized.  I would think the indies are charging tariffs for things my colony produces!  The same cannot be said about the paltry commodities my industries cannot produce that they import.

Tht being said the main value of commerce is not +1 stability its the ability to sell without having to haul everything to the core

That is not a significant benefit.  Much rather sell the vendor trash to the -1/-10% pirate base that inevitably pops up next door to my colonies.  No tariffs there, not to mention no upkeep and industry slot costs to support the indie freeloaders.

The easiest of which to mention is that trading without having your cargo scanned is valuable. And you have played enough to understand why. Or am i the only one who saves alpha cores?

I do not like cargo scans, which is a reason why I wrote "I am not one of them".  But, I have seen posts of others who treat cargo scans as insignificant.

Still, it is easy enough to find a place where it is relatively safe to turn off transponder then dock.  If all I need is a place to pawn vendor trash or buy some mid-tier weapons, any Black Market will do, even those of my enemies.

As for alpha cores, that varies by game.  In my last game, I have a colony next door to a red system, so I never need to bring cores anywhere near core worlds, except to turn in if I want to fix rep fast and easy (which I only did once with Pathers; I usually hoard cores).

EDIT:  I guess Commerce could be more handy in few strategic locations after player exterminates all of the core worlds then builds many more new colonies (with alpha spam) all over the place.  I have not really attempted that mad quest yet.

[ubuntufreakdragon]

It's really unrealistic for any government to make trade completely unprofitable by taxes. This just ensures ALL trade to happen on the black market, drasticly reducing the total tax income.
If a modern country would take ~3% taxes on every transaction without refund rules, this would be more income than all other currently used tax sources summed up.

1) it doesnt matter.

I argument from the perspective of the government not the player and realism is something that matters.
btw. If the domain had the same taxes the collapse would be the sole logic conclusion as the economy wouldn't be able to sustain the gates.

2) tariffs dont make trade unprofitable it makes dumb player trade unprofitable.

From the governments perspective this dump player trade is that type of trade that should be encouraged, as exploiting shortages raiding colonies to create them and black market trade are those harmful types a government should fear.

3) current traxation rates tend to be between 20 to 40 % of GDP depending on locality.. large tariffs are less common but like... more common than you seem to think

Well the diffence is the refund rules in current tax systems if product a requires resource b and you have to pay 15$ taxes for a normally and already have paid 10$ in taxes for b you only pay 5$ taxes for a.
Without this refund 3% on every transaction would create your 20 - 40% in total.
Even in collapse times more than 5% are totally unrealistic from this perspective.

[Goumindong]

From the governments perspective this dump player trade is that type of trade that should be encouraged, as exploiting shortages raiding colonies to create them and black market trade are those harmful types a government should fear.

No. From a government perspective there isnt a lot of value in encouraging wildcat trades. But there is a lot of value in making people pay for the inspections of goods and other import controls

The point of 2 wasnt to say that trading is impossiblebut to maybe get you the understanding that its not the player who is doing it. Trade fleets happen all the time. Those fleets are profitable. Theyre just not dumb player routes. Theyre NPC routes.

Well the diffence is the refund rules in current tax systems if product a requires resource b and you have to pay 15$ taxes for a normally and already have paid 10$ in taxes for b you only pay 5$ taxes for a.

Tariffs are not VATs... you are not being taxed for “every transaction”. You are not a producer producing up the supply chain. Youre importing and exporting and youre paying when you export and youre paying when you import.

Now i suppose we could reduce export tariffs, those really are pretty uncommon. But then people would just complain about the import tariffs and how the black market wasnt good for buying anything because you can just buy it on the regular market for the same price!