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Author Topic: Antimatter Blaster rant  (Read 4809 times)

Megas

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2020, 02:16:58 PM »

Doom is good, both as a playership and AI ship.  Harbinger and the frigates are annoying.  As a playership, they are most effective with strike loadouts (such as all AM Blasters or Reapers), reducing the player to that of an oversized Piranha.  AI phase ships (aside from Doom) are utterly incompetent; they tend to cower until their PPT/CR expire then die faster than every other ship.  They also struggle with loadouts that are optimized for playership use.
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2020, 01:42:17 AM »

Make it deal hard flux by default, that's all it needs.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 01:44:26 AM by SonnaBanana »
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Eji1700

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2020, 09:11:13 AM »

Make it deal hard flux by default, that's all it needs.
I could get behind this.  I don't think the weapon is weak at all as is, more just the small energy slot in general(as has been discussed many times).  For what is, essentially, a torpedo with double digit shots and immunity to PD, i think a lot of people in this topic are just underrating them.
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Schwartz

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2020, 09:19:58 AM »

The AM Blaster deals hard flux. All projectile weapons do.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2020, 09:50:39 AM »

Other torpedos don't use a big chunk of your flux capacity, and don't require you to be at melee range to use. That's a huge difference in a fleet fight where other enemies can punish you for over-committing.

AM blaster definitely does hard flux, but that's not very relevant since you're trying to hit the enemies armor and hull anyway.
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Megas

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2020, 10:17:26 AM »

AM blaster definitely does hard flux, but that's not very relevant since you're trying to hit the enemies armor and hull anyway.
It was useful for trying to overload shields outright through spike damage (and paralyze target for twelve seconds) in previous releases.  That is what AM Blaster on Scarab was useful for.  Wait until IR Pulse Laser/Ion Cannon build up hard flux high enough, then overload target with AM Blaster.  Worked great in 0.7.2a when skills were stronger and AI was dumber.

Today, it is generally not very useful.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2020, 10:23:04 AM »

AM blaster definitely does hard flux, but that's not very relevant since you're trying to hit the enemies armor and hull anyway.
It was useful for trying to overload shields outright through spike damage (and paralyze target for twelve seconds) in previous releases.  That is what AM Blaster on Scarab was useful for.  Wait until IR Pulse Laser/Ion Cannon build up hard flux high enough, then overload target with AM Blaster.  Worked great in 0.7.2a when skills were stronger and AI was dumber.

Today, it is generally not very useful.

Soft vs Hard flux doesn't matter there either though, which was the point. You're not trying to build up flux with it, you're finishing with it.
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Igncom1

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2020, 10:31:31 AM »

Crippling a high flux ship with missiles or torpedoes or AM blasters does feel great however!
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TaLaR

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2020, 11:47:12 AM »

Other torpedos don't use a big chunk of your flux capacity, and don't require you to be at melee range to use. That's a huge difference in a fleet fight where other enemies can punish you for over-committing.

You definitely want to be just outside death explosion radius or even take it on shield if you want to reliably score a Reaper hit. Reapers may technically have 1200 range, but even capitals can occasionally dodge them from that far. Or target will just dissipate enough flux to raise shield before hit.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2020, 12:24:10 PM »

Other torpedos don't use a big chunk of your flux capacity, and don't require you to be at melee range to use. That's a huge difference in a fleet fight where other enemies can punish you for over-committing.

You definitely want to be just outside death explosion radius or even take it on shield if you want to reliably score a Reaper hit. Reapers may technically have 1200 range, but even capitals can occasionally dodge them from that far. Or target will just dissipate enough flux to raise shield before hit.

Sure, reapers being unguided generally requires closer range than other guided torpedos (although I still often fire from ~5-600 range against slower ships, and you can keep shooting while you're firing them), but reapers also do 3x the damage to armor and still don't cost any flux. Something like a harpoon that does similar armor damage has much better consistent range than AM blaster.

Really though, its the combination of a big flux spike and being very close to the enemy fleet that sucks for ships that can't phase out immediately after. A lot of the time, you don't even have the spare capacity to safely fire the AM blaster if you're stuck using energy weapons to drive up flux. AM blasters require tons of aggression to get value, but punishes that same aggression by spiking your own flux. It's particularly bad for the AI that doesn't know how to manage the risk associated with aggression well.
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Grievous69

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2020, 12:41:08 PM »

You definitely want to be just outside death explosion radius or even take it on shield if you want to reliably score a Reaper hit. Reapers may technically have 1200 range, but even capitals can occasionally dodge them from that far. Or target will just dissipate enough flux to raise shield before hit.
I'm genuinely curious, how do you manage to miss capitals with a Reaper? I don't think I've ever missed a cruiser, and I'm not even that great at piloting. It's so easy to predict where the AI will be in a second or two. Now if you're talking about Cyclone Reaper, then yeah I understand the second missile can miss sometimes if you're not being careful.

Also to others: please stop calling something that deals 1500 flux to YOUR ship a torpedo.
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TaLaR

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2020, 12:59:49 PM »

I'm genuinely curious, how do you manage to miss capitals with a Reaper? I don't think I've ever missed a cruiser, and I'm not even that great at piloting. It's so easy to predict where the AI will be in a second or two. Now if you're talking about Cyclone Reaper, then yeah I understand the second missile can miss sometimes if you're not being careful.

Reapers take about 4-5 seconds to reach max range without ECCM or character skills.

Odyssey is thin enough that it can simply strafe away from a torpedo fired from too far. A Conquest using maneuvering jets can dodge quite well too.
Unlike with projectile weapons, AI actually does try to dodge missiles/torpedoes.
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Megas

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2020, 01:00:53 PM »

Sometimes, I am willing to sacrifice a Reaper Afflictor in a death explosion if it means Mr. Radiant or other capital dies now (because I did not waste time trying to reposition and save Afflictor)!  I will just have Orbital Works build five or so more replacements.
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Grievous69

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2020, 01:20:27 PM »

Reapers take about 4-5 seconds to reach max range without ECCM or character skills.
My bad, I usually take the skill for better missile speed so I assumed wrong, but testing it now it seems it barely reaches 3 seconds at max range when my ship is standing still (doubt going forward would change much but just to be sure).

Here's a crazy thought which would probably make some phase ships weaker, what if AMB dealt kinetic dmg? Before you say it wouldn't make sense, it already doesn't make sense it's not HE.
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TaLaR

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Re: Antimatter Blaster rant
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2020, 01:24:50 PM »

4-5 is what I've got from looking at PPT while firing.

What's the point of bypassing shields with kinetic damage? :)
Anyway, it would make AM useless for phase frigates, limiting them to Reapers only. But would also be ridiculously good for Aurora or Shrike.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 01:27:32 PM by TaLaR »
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