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Author Topic: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough  (Read 1400 times)

Vinkink

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Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« on: May 23, 2020, 03:27:32 AM »

No mods, 0.91a-RC8

Great job on this. I originally bought it when it was Starfarer, played it for an hour or two in 2016 (0.7.2!), but now it's much more playable in a campaigny sense.
I just did a playthrough and have some niggles/annoyances. I.e. things that were detrimental to enjoying the game.


* UI Consistency - Some maps left click is set destination. On others it's right. This is really confusing and even after 10+hrs playing it still gets me. A core tenet of any good UI is consistency. Free-look should be a keyboard thing, not a mouse-interface-changing thing. This was still getting me occasionally after 20+hrs of play.

* Two Galaxy maps. I find it confusing flitting between them. One good map would be so much better. Merge them.

* I'm playing on "easy" and I've been playing spacey games for decades (and am not too shabby at them as a general rule), but I still keep losing whatever ship I'm piloting with great ease, even if it's a cruiser and the rest of my ships are destroyers (against destroyers/frigates). I transfer into another ship in the fleet and shortly thereafter I'm dead again while the rest of my fleet goes on with no loses. I'm not that aggressive either. Now, for one thing this is a testament to the great AI, and obviously I'm doing lots of things wrong, but apart from this balance issue, I *have* to participate in the battles otherwise I'm just spending 10 minutes watching a (admittedly pretty) space combat happen. I can't micro my fleet (which I'd be more than happy to do) because I have a piddly amount of command points. So what am I /meant/ to do during the combat? I can't micro my shields/weapons like the AI does, I'm more of a strategist than a tactician but the game design decisions means that the space combat portion can be quite not-fun against anything except an inferior force.

* Further to this, in big fleet battles there simply aren't enough command points in the first place, even without microing. Reinforcements eat them all up alone, if I were to bother retreating that'd eat a bunch more. Didn't get the command-point upgrades because spent my levels on non-combat stuff (not that +3 points would have done much).

* I "resisted" an AI inspection and took a -50 hit to rep! Ok, I get that they *really* don't like that, but it should have told me that the consequences would be so bad then I would have simply bribed instead. That's a *huge* rep hit with no warning; no way I'm going to bother grinding that back. If I click on the event after the fact it actually says "relationship reduced by 59". :-/

* Forced manual combat against tiny fleets when I'm orders of magnitude more powerful.

* Chasing the last frigate or two down (and it's not decided I've "won" yet). Gah! Especially when they have that jumping ability.

* Given that (again) I can't micro my fleet, it would be nice if there was a "keep away from all other ships" option for my carriers. I've tried various things (assigning escorts, placing them "behind" where I think the combat will be, assigning them as escorts, etc) but they're glass cannons. I don't have enough command points to keep repositioning them away from the combat (which is always moving fluidly).

* I managed to miss a delivery mission for independents. It was the only mission I failed. I got -5 rep. Fine, I deserve that. Several cycles later I'm hit by a ginourmous fleet (battlecruiser, 6*superfreighters, 4*assault carriers, 15+ cruisers...) which the comms is telling me is in retribution for failing the delivery. Can you say: Disproportionate. (That was about 6* more powerful than my fleet. Lvl 46)

* Some listed missile ammo's cover the multiples they split into, others do not. This can be confusing when trying to work out what to equip. I get that this is because of the different types (some missles launch as one and split, some launch as many), but maybe it should say "limited volleys" with the number being how many times you can fire? (With the damage still showing the multiples as applicable).

* If you use the starmap to set a destination by clicking on a star, it should navigate to a jump point for the star if there is one, not the star itself. I ended up in a blackhole that way! :-/

* One of my colonies in particular keeps getting raided (by various factions). Eventually they took down the starbase, and now all the raids succeed because there is no starbase and they raid while it's still "disrupted". This has happened at least 5 times in a row now! Starfortress, heavy batteries, patrol, size 7, 270% fleet, me administrating with all 3 colony perks.

* The pirates keep setting up next to one of my colonies in particular. Then I go there and destroy them, then a few months later they're at it again... :-/ Happened at least 4 times. Colony has patrol, surely they should, you know, patrol known pirate places. (Another colony has High Command).
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Grievous69

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2020, 03:57:28 AM »

1. Yeah the UI needs a bit more work, I also find alternating controls annoying.

2. There was a suggestion about this but it seems Alex doesn't know how to implement this elegantly, since the two maps have separate functions.

3. If you find yourself dying a lot, perhaps try a ship that's more focused on mobility so you can get out of sticky situations. Trust me, the amount of hours you said you invested in this game is not that substantial, you'll get better eventually. Or just put your flagship into autopilot but I'd suggest getting better since it pays off so much more. The game can be punishing even on easy, don't feel bad.

4. Not to say you're playing the game wrong but the command points are specifically low enough so people can't play this as an RTS. You don't have to micromanage each ship telling it where to go and what to shoot. I mostly use orders for escort commands, eliminate and retreat when CR gets low. People say ''avoid'' is also useful but I used that maybe twice in multiple years of playing the game. AI is mostly smart so it's designed to at least do ok without any inputs from player with commands.

5. I think the description says something about hostility, not sure tho.

6. and 7. Alex said this should happen way less in the next update, or maybe he just added a new mechanic.

8. What officers are you using on your carriers? It's not a good idea for them to have aggressive or reckless officers. If you want them to stay far away, I think cautious personality fits that. Alternatively you can set the personality of all your non-officered ships in the ''command'' menu under ''doctrine''.

9. That never happened to me so no idea, it seems little crazy for just one mission tho and they're not even pirates.

10. Either way you're gonna end up doing some basic math so I don't see the need to change it.

11. Fixed for the next update.

12. By ''patrol'' do you mean ships from the Patrol HQ or the upgraded buildings? Because even with a star fortress your colonies will get spanked by multiple factions if you don't have big fleets around (or yourself).

13. It's just the current only end game so they're a bit more annoying then they will be in the future, expect this to be less of a problem in the next update. Also I'm pretty sure we'll get some way to deal with them without having to go base hunting personally (orders tab from the command menu).
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Vinkink

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2020, 04:59:34 AM »

3. If you find yourself dying a lot, perhaps try a ship that's more focused on mobility so you can get out of sticky situations. Trust me, the amount of hours you said you invested in this game is not that substantial, you'll get better eventually. Or just put your flagship into autopilot but I'd suggest getting better since it pays off so much more. The game can be punishing even on easy, don't feel bad.
I appreciate the advice (really!), but as far as I'm convinced, I've "finished" the game for a few more years now. (And it's great that Alex & co are still working on it so that'll almost certainly happen!). 40hrs is about my limit for any game these days. After that I've generally experienced everything I want to.
The thing to remember is, the folks here are all long-term hard-core players. The vast majority of players are casual, and certainly will be when full release happens. Just look at the Steam statistics for any game with achievements and you'll see few players progress far into any game. This is who "easy" should be aimed at, otherwise they're going to go rage quit because they keep losing and then give it a bad review.
The best option is to have custom difficulty. i.e. space combat difficulty is different from colony management bonuses, etc.


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4. Not to say you're playing the game wrong but the command points are specifically low enough so people can't play this as an RTS. You don't have to micromanage each ship telling it where to go and what to shoot. I mostly use orders for escort commands, eliminate and retreat when CR gets low. People say ''avoid'' is also useful but I used that maybe twice in multiple years of playing the game. AI is mostly smart so it's designed to at least do ok without any inputs from player with commands.
I'm aware of this, it's an obvious design choice that was made. The problem is it doesn't scale to large fleet battles even if I don't try microing (and I generally don't). Calling in and assigning reinforcements is one point. Retreating is another point. Also, there are some battles where manually assigning targets occasionally is the only way to actually achieve things or the idiot cruisers go chasing down frigates while the enemy cruisers carve me up (escorts are often worse than useless).

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8. What officers are you using on your carriers? It's not a good idea for them to have aggressive or reckless officers. If you want them to stay far away, I think cautious personality fits that. Alternatively you can set the personality of all your non-officered ships in the ''command'' menu under ''doctrine''.
There was no officer.

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10. Either way you're gonna end up doing some basic math so I don't see the need to change it.
I don't think I was clear. It's not possible to do the "basic math" right now because I don't how "ammo (20)" actually relates to the "200*5" - do I get 20 volleys or 4? It seems to vary by missle. (Also, requiring numeracy is never something you should do - innumeracy is far more common).

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12. By ''patrol'' do you mean ships from the Patrol HQ or the upgraded buildings? Because even with a star fortress your colonies will get spanked by multiple factions if you don't have big fleets around (or yourself).
Patrol HQ. I ended up having to roll in from across the galaxy and glass the fleet myself to break the cycle.
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Grievous69

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2020, 05:11:28 AM »

There was no officer.
In that case the default is set to ''steady'' unless you changed it. Which is ok for most ships, but yeah the carriers with no firepower or defense may get in trouble. This is perfectly fine since it means your AI will have opportunities to also kill enemy carriers.

I don't think I was clear. It's not possible to do the "basic math" right now because I don't how "ammo (20)" actually relates to the "200*5" - do I get 20 volleys or 4? It seems to vary by missle. (Also, requiring numeracy is never something you should do - innumeracy is far more common).
Ammo tells you exactly how many missiles it holds, 200x5 means it fires 5 missiles at once. I'm starting to think you think about the Hurricane MIRV which splits into smaller missiles, yet it still says the ammo is 10. But when it fires, it's only one, so it would be weird to show it differently.

Patrol HQ. I ended up having to roll in from across the galaxy and glass the fleet myself to break the cycle.
Yeah that's not gonna cut it, especially in late game. I've seen people have 3 High commands in the same system just so they don't have to babysit colonies for every other expedition.

EDIT: I've only now remembered why the missile ammo is not in volleys. You can cancel the firing by venting or that same weapon being disabled in combat. So let's say you use the 200x5 missile, you want to fire it but it gets EMPd and fires only 2. This way you still have the missiles that didn't go out.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 05:14:31 AM by Grievous69 »
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Megas

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2020, 06:10:07 AM »

If you really want CP, you want to squeeze the Operations Center hullmod on your flagship, and maybe get that one skill that raises CP (and provides minor ECM and Nav bonuses).  There were a few posts about people playing a Hound or other flagship spec'ced for fast CP generation that avoids the enemy while your AI ships do the fighting.

Enemies have become much more cowardly since 0.8a.  Gone are the days when enemy ships will charge in a blaze of glory.

Like Grievious69 says, you need multiple High Commands in the same system to be nearly proof against expeditions.  Two may be enough, but three or more are ideal.  For similar reasons, this is why pirates successfully raid core worlds (with minimal system defenses) over and over again almost every time, and if you do not want to risk some decivilizing after several years, you may need to babysit the core worlds too.  (I have strongly considered destroying all of the core worlds or let the pirates do it so I do not need to spend most of my play time chasing pirates to save core worlds.)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 06:23:14 AM by Megas »
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Mordodrukow

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2020, 07:00:59 AM »

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* I'm playing on "easy" and I've been playing spacey games for decades (and am not too shabby at them as a general rule), but I still keep losing whatever ship I'm piloting with great ease, even if it's a cruiser and the rest of my ships are destroyers (against destroyers/frigates). I transfer into another ship in the fleet and shortly thereafter I'm dead again while the rest of my fleet goes on with no loses. I'm not that aggressive either. Now, for one thing this is a testament to the great AI, and obviously I'm doing lots of things wrong, but apart from this balance issue, I *have* to participate in the battles otherwise I'm just spending 10 minutes watching a (admittedly pretty) space combat happen. I can't micro my fleet (which I'd be more than happy to do) because I have a piddly amount of command points. So what am I /meant/ to do during the combat? I can't micro my shields/weapons like the AI does, I'm more of a strategist than a tactician but the game design decisions means that the space combat portion can be quite not-fun against anything except an inferior force.
Try to set all weapon groups on autofire mode and focus on movement and shield management. Just dont use weapons that need to fire at right moments.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2020, 08:32:49 AM »

I agree with all your points, OP

I think a big part of the difficulty is there are many ways to make a bad ship loadout. That wouldn't be such a problem IF THE GAME DIDN'T HERD PEOPLE INTO IT.

Go open up a given market and see what weapons are available; are there even LMGs and Mining Lasers? Not always!
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TaLaR

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2020, 08:48:00 AM »

SO Lasher with LMGs and Annihilators is fully open market and good enough to dominate early combat under player control. Though it was even better when armor was fully strippable.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 08:49:59 AM by TaLaR »
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SCC

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2020, 10:40:37 AM »

If I recall correctly, due to some code it's not actually that easy to merge both maps into one.

I don't know what you are doing to say what you are doing wrong. Do you observe your flux level to make sure you aren't overloaded? Do you manage your weapon groups? Do you use missiles? Do you make sure to counter shields with kinetics and armour with high explosives?
A part of the reason why you can't spend order your ships around is because ships won't act like in an RTS. They will generally try not to die, even if it means your order won't be carried out.

It's unfortunate that AI ban is justified due to backstory, which is kept mostly in the background. The game definitely should make a bigger fuss about it.

It sounds like you're using slow carriers (Condors) and they simply cannot get away from any enemies, unlike your warships, which appear to be more on the agile side. Consider switching to Drovers, which are almost twice as fast as Condors and are more survivable. Also, you can issue multiple orders if you do it while "command window" or something like that lasts. It appears after you make an order and lasts until the bar in the upper right runs out or until you turn the tactical map off.

Patrol HQ is wholly insufficient for any kind of defence, upgrade it as soon as possible. Additionally, currently patrols don't go to other systems. They patrol only their own system and sometimes some hyperspace around it.

9. That never happened to me so no idea, it seems little crazy for just one mission tho and they're not even pirates.
I recall other people having such complaints, though.
13. It's just the current only end game so they're a bit more annoying then they will be in the future, expect this to be less of a problem in the next update. Also I'm pretty sure we'll get some way to deal with them without having to go base hunting personally (orders tab from the command menu).
There is a bug where pirate stations respawn faster than they should.

I think a big part of the difficulty is there are many ways to make a bad ship loadout. That wouldn't be such a problem IF THE GAME DIDN'T HERD PEOPLE INTO IT.

Go open up a given market and see what weapons are available; are there even LMGs and Mining Lasers? Not always!
Most annoying thing is that all weapons come in clumps, but there's a chance you won't encounter a clump of weapons you might use at the time you buy a new ship, at the station where you do.
And, in all honesty, absence of mining lasers is a good thing. Better have no PD than them.

SapphireSage

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2020, 10:45:02 AM »

* I'm playing on "easy" and I've been playing spacey games for decades (and am not too shabby at them as a general rule), but I still keep losing whatever ship I'm piloting with great ease, even if it's a cruiser and the rest of my ships are destroyers (against destroyers/frigates). I transfer into another ship in the fleet and shortly thereafter I'm dead again while the rest of my fleet goes on with no loses. I'm not that aggressive either. Now, for one thing this is a testament to the great AI, and obviously I'm doing lots of things wrong, but apart from this balance issue, I *have* to participate in the battles otherwise I'm just spending 10 minutes watching a (admittedly pretty) space combat happen. I can't micro my fleet (which I'd be more than happy to do) because I have a piddly amount of command points. So what am I /meant/ to do during the combat? I can't micro my shields/weapons like the AI does, I'm more of a strategist than a tactician but the game design decisions means that the space combat portion can be quite not-fun against anything except an inferior force.

* Further to this, in big fleet battles there simply aren't enough command points in the first place, even without microing. Reinforcements eat them all up alone, if I were to bother retreating that'd eat a bunch more. Didn't get the command-point upgrades because spent my levels on non-combat stuff (not that +3 points would have done much).

* Given that (again) I can't micro my fleet, it would be nice if there was a "keep away from all other ships" option for my carriers. I've tried various things (assigning escorts, placing them "behind" where I think the combat will be, assigning them as escorts, etc) but they're glass cannons. I don't have enough command points to keep repositioning them away from the combat (which is always moving fluidly).

If you would like to go for a more strategic route, you can grab the "Command and Control" skill up to level 2 and put the Ops Center hullmod on your flagship. Bonus points if you do it on something small and with relatively negligible DP like a hound frigate and place yourself far from combat. I know that HELMUT at one point wrote about a playthrough he did with such a build here. It showed that the combo can actually be very dangerous if you're into that sort of play and while it won't regen enough points to constantly give orders it should be sufficient enough to give better tactical direction. The main "regular" playthrough is more intended to have the player contributing to much of the battle with the AI more or less able to take care of themselves or have the player provide occasional direction to them, but the eliminate order should give the AI enough aggression as necessary to cover for the player being more command than control.

I do also recommend practicing combat at some point with the game as it is built heavily around the combat system and can get pretty exciting at times. It can also come in handy if you prefer to use a more tactical carrier instead as you'll be better prepared to defend yourself when you eventually get engaged from a flanking enemy.
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Vinkink

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2020, 11:06:41 AM »

On the ammo point, I now see there's a "burst" count there, which is the number I want. It's just in "ancillary" data so I probably saw it once then forgot about it. :-)

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It sounds like you're using slow carriers (Condors) and they simply cannot get away from any enemies
I was using whatever it was I had salvaged a couple times, but yes, it was definitely slow. Don't think I ever caught a faster one in the entire playthrough.
But in the end it became apparent that carriers were useless for much more than picking off stray frigates; PD would just toast the swarms (just as mine would always toast theirs).

My solution to the piloting problem was simply to be piloting a Paragon. :-D Still had some trouble with certain remnant swarms and being "supported" by ineffectual "escorts", but otherwise it was all good, even against other Paragons (where on earth did a pirate fleet get 2 * Paragons from... heh).
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Terethall

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2020, 12:58:22 PM »

I couldn't agree more with all of OP's UI-based points from this and the other thread (maps, controls, missile descriptions, etc.) because I really, really, really hate the entire intel menu and screen, like, to death. Also the mouse navigation controls and free look on the right mouse click is just nuts.

The gameplay ones I think are all things Alex has said will be adjusted so I'm holding tight there. I like the mix of commands, piloting, etc. and I don't feel like the repercussions of resisting AI inspections (aka the thing the entire sector has had multiple wars over), or "failed deliveries" (realistically, stealing the goods and thus basically identifying yourself as a pirate to the entire faction that requested the delivery) are too much, but better warnings up front would definitely be nice.
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dead_hand

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2020, 12:56:37 AM »

No mods, 0.91a-RC8

...

* I'm playing on "easy" and I've been playing spacey games for decades (and am not too shabby at them as a general rule), but I still keep losing whatever ship I'm piloting with great ease, even if it's a cruiser and the rest of my ships are destroyers (against destroyers/frigates). I transfer into another ship in the fleet and shortly thereafter I'm dead again while the rest of my fleet goes on with no loses. I'm not that aggressive either. Now, for one thing this is a testament to the great AI, and obviously I'm doing lots of things wrong, but apart from this balance issue, I *have* to participate in the battles otherwise I'm just spending 10 minutes watching a (admittedly pretty) space combat happen. I can't micro my fleet (which I'd be more than happy to do) because I have a piddly amount of command points. So what am I /meant/ to do during the combat? I can't micro my shields/weapons like the AI does, I'm more of a strategist than a tactician but the game design decisions means that the space combat portion can be quite not-fun against anything except an inferior force.


Not all cruisers are great at combat. Some of them have more of an exploration focus (e.g. good cargo space, exploration related hullmods), e.g. Venture Class, Apogee Class cruisers. While they can generally beat a destroyer 1v1, they will not survive if they take on too many of them. If you are done with exploration, and want a more battle-focused play, then your aim should be (besides making money) to buy a strong cruiser like the Eagle or Aurora. You are much less likely to lose either of those ships, and pretty much impossible to lose them if the enemy has no Capital ships.

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* Further to this, in big fleet battles there simply aren't enough command points in the first place, even without microing. Reinforcements eat them all up alone, if I were to bother retreating that'd eat a bunch more. Didn't get the command-point upgrades because spent my levels on non-combat stuff (not that +3 points would have done much).


Completely agree here. Although there is a skill you can learn for more Command Points, it's not enough for the largest battles, unless you go for the pure Paragon spam.

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* I "resisted" an AI inspection and took a -50 hit to rep! Ok, I get that they *really* don't like that, but it should have told me that the consequences would be so bad then I would have simply bribed instead. That's a *huge* rep hit with no warning; no way I'm going to bother grinding that back. If I click on the event after the fact it actually says "relationship reduced by 59". :-/


Ah. If you decide to use any AI Cores (Gamma, Beta, Alpha) in your colonies, it will trigger AI inspections from the hegemony. If the Hegemony AI Inspection fleet gets defeated by either Your personal fleet, or any fleet belonging to your faction, then the Hegemony will declare war on you and your faction, and relations will go to -50 instantly (if not lower already). Essentially, the Hegemony will become your enemy in each and every game-play, unless you decide NOT to make any colonies yourself. Having low relations with Hegemony is completely normal, I end up with -100 on every play-through, unmodded and modded  ;)

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* Forced manual combat against tiny fleets when I'm orders of magnitude more powerful.


Use fighters. Fighters can shred frigates and destroyers insanely quick.

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* Chasing the last frigate or two down (and it's not decided I've "won" yet). Gah! Especially when they have that jumping ability.


If you think the ships with the phase skim ('jump') ability is bad, wait until you have to fight ships with the phase cloak ability :D there is nothing you can do to catch then, other than waiting, or installing console commands and typing 'Nuke' (recommended solution).

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* Given that (again) I can't micro my fleet, it would be nice if there was a "keep away from all other ships" option for my carriers. I've tried various things (assigning escorts, placing them "behind" where I think the combat will be, assigning them as escorts, etc) but they're glass cannons. I don't have enough command points to keep repositioning them away from the combat (which is always moving fluidly).


Carriers naturally keep away from combat, except for the Legion class, because it is not a pure Carrier (it's a kind of a hybrid combat and carrier ship). However, if the enemy can keep your fighters busy with their own, and has a bunch of fast destroyers, it's a bit of a coin toss as to who will win :P

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...

* One of my colonies in particular keeps getting raided (by various factions). Eventually they took down the starbase, and now all the raids succeed because there is no starbase and they raid while it's still "disrupted". This has happened at least 5 times in a row now! Starfortress, heavy batteries, patrol, size 7, 270% fleet, me administrating with all 3 colony perks.

* The pirates keep setting up next to one of my colonies in particular. Then I go there and destroy them, then a few months later they're at it again... :-/ Happened at least 4 times. Colony has patrol, surely they should, you know, patrol known pirate places. (Another colony has High Command).

One colony with one High Command and Star Fortress will repel many of the common attacks, but a fully fledged pirate raid can overwhelm that. If you want a base that is impenetrable for unmodded vanilla, get a system with 5 planets, colonize them all, build High Command and Star Fortress on all of them, put Alpha Core as Administrator for all, and put Alpha Core into all High Commands and Star Fortresses. It is usually best to keep all your colonies in one system if possible, there's not really a lot of advantage in colonizing between distant locations, because of the aforementioned pirate threats.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 01:00:03 AM by dead_hand »
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Aereto

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2020, 01:09:49 AM »

Ah. If you decide to use any AI Cores (Gamma, Beta, Alpha) in your colonies, it will trigger AI inspections from the hegemony. If the Hegemony AI Inspection fleet gets defeated by either Your personal fleet, or any fleet belonging to your faction, then the Hegemony will declare war on you and your faction, and relations will go to -50 instantly (if not lower already). Essentially, the Hegemony will become your enemy in each and every game-play, unless you decide NOT to make any colonies yourself. Having low relations with Hegemony is completely normal, I end up with -100 on every play-through, unmodded and modded  ;)

Though the alternate route unmodded is quietly raiding their military colonies into decivilization while no one catches you in the act or trying to sneak in, all while doing missions to keep up the facade. And that is to be done before you can even consider putting any AI core. You know, the Tri-Tachyon way of dealing with annoyances.  ;)

That does mean bringing an entire fleet of troop transports with insulated engines with Sensors 2 fleet skill.

AI-less colonies are doable, as I have done that in multiple runs, just requires being prudent on choosing a system that is both economical and defensible.

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One colony with one High Command and Star Fortress will repel many of the common attacks, but a fully fledged pirate raid can overwhelm that. If you want a base that is impenetrable for unmodded vanilla, get a system with 5 planets, colonize them all, build High Command and Star Fortress on all of them, put Alpha Core as Administrator for all, and put Alpha Core into all High Commands and Star Fortresses. It is usually best to keep all your colonies in one system if possible, there's not really a lot of advantage in colonizing between distant locations, because of the aforementioned pirate threats.

I would also recommend alpha cores on defensive structures on the rare occasion the star fortress is out for repairs, and have all of the defensive structures possible. That will stack defenses to the point that pirates can't send marines to operate any ground raids, with a waystation to maintain most of the defenses when pirates blockade the colony by taking down the convoys.

That does mean being friends with no one except the Independent and Luddic Church (the ones who aren't jealous of your goods or hates you for flaunting AI laws like toilet paper).
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Eji1700

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Re: Niggles/Annoyances from a playthrough
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2020, 03:44:38 PM »

No mods, 0.91a-RC8

Great job on this. I originally bought it when it was Starfarer, played it for an hour or two in 2016 (0.7.2!), but now it's much more playable in a campaigny sense.
I just did a playthrough and have some niggles/annoyances. I.e. things that were detrimental to enjoying the game.


* UI Consistency - Some maps left click is set destination. On others it's right. This is really confusing and even after 10+hrs playing it still gets me. A core tenet of any good UI is consistency. Free-look should be a keyboard thing, not a mouse-interface-changing thing. This was still getting me occasionally after 20+hrs of play.
I always forget to mention this when changes are discussed but YES.  Especially given that I personally always want free look on, I really dislike that it's on right click.

* Two Galaxy maps. I find it confusing flitting between them. One good map would be so much better. Merge them.
I've been mostly ok with this, but it is odd that there's differences between how you interact with an use the bounty map (E) and the normal map (tab).  Could probably use some cleanup/standardization. 

* I'm playing on "easy" and I've been playing spacey games for decades (and am not too shabby at them as a general rule), but I still keep losing whatever ship I'm piloting with great ease, even if it's a cruiser and the rest of my ships are destroyers (against destroyers/frigates). I transfer into another ship in the fleet and shortly thereafter I'm dead again while the rest of my fleet goes on with no loses. I'm not that aggressive either. Now, for one thing this is a testament to the great AI, and obviously I'm doing lots of things wrong, but apart from this balance issue, I *have* to participate in the battles otherwise I'm just spending 10 minutes watching a (admittedly pretty) space combat happen. I can't micro my fleet (which I'd be more than happy to do) because I have a piddly amount of command points. So what am I /meant/ to do during the combat? I can't micro my shields/weapons like the AI does, I'm more of a strategist than a tactician but the game design decisions means that the space combat portion can be quite not-fun against anything except an inferior force.
I grew up on things like EV and this game beat the hell out of me.  You're meant to pilot your ship and shoot stuff down because you're generally better than the AI, but at the same time you really need to understand the combat to not be dead weight.  Feels like there should be a dedicated combat tutorial, and that easy should start you in a better ship (maybe just give the head start ship options) because flying something smaller while learning the game is punishing.

Heck thinking about it this strikes me as a great game for one of "customized start" systems, where you can pick from some presets or just toggle individual factors (starting cash/income/rep/ship).  Would need to be done carefully to not get too finicky, but could help with roleplay aspects (start out with a specfic kind of fleet or with a certain faction) and difficulty.

* Further to this, in big fleet battles there simply aren't enough command points in the first place, even without microing. Reinforcements eat them all up alone, if I were to bother retreating that'd eat a bunch more. Didn't get the command-point upgrades because spent my levels on non-combat stuff (not that +3 points would have done much).
I believe a stated goal of the creator is that this is NOT an RTS game and by extension that's intentional.  I could be wrong, and I know you can spend skill points to buff that playstyle, but it's been awhile since i tried it.  That said I suspect there's already a mod to fix this, and if not it shouldn't be too hard to make/do so that those who want that kind of playstyle can get it.  Again though, a better tutorial for these systems (seperate of the main game) would help a lot.  They're deep and complicated so it's never going to be easy to teach them in some scripted main campaign thing.

* I "resisted" an AI inspection and took a -50 hit to rep! Ok, I get that they *really* don't like that, but it should have told me that the consequences would be so bad then I would have simply bribed instead. That's a *huge* rep hit with no warning; no way I'm going to bother grinding that back. If I click on the event after the fact it actually says "relationship reduced by 59". :-/
Yeah stuff related to colonies in general is in a very "alpha" state only having been recently added, and it's missing some core interactions.  I think this sort of thing is known but it never hurts to have another data point.  As it stands the end game colony management is fun, but a little flat.

* Forced manual combat against tiny fleets when I'm orders of magnitude more powerful.
Another one I always forget to bring up. More pre combat options in general would help.  Being able to "let my second in command handle it" just like any cleanup op when you're vastly stronger should be a thing, but i'm also hoping we get things like "ambush" or "flank" one day that allow different engagements depending on the conditions when you bumped into them (thus giving more reason to go dark and the like).

* Chasing the last frigate or two down (and it's not decided I've "won" yet). Gah! Especially when they have that jumping ability.
Yeah i forgot how annoying this was when i was learning.  Putting your fleet on eliminate helps a lot, but I absolutely build fleets now with this sort of thing in mind.  Carriers in general are great at this but i tend to always have some fast attackers.  Not sure what the goal should be here because there's absolutely a state, especially early game, where the AI shouldn't just give up, but also has 0 reason to rush you down, so you wind up playing tag all day.

* Given that (again) I can't micro my fleet, it would be nice if there was a "keep away from all other ships" option for my carriers. I've tried various things (assigning escorts, placing them "behind" where I think the combat will be, assigning them as escorts, etc) but they're glass cannons. I don't have enough command points to keep repositioning them away from the combat (which is always moving fluidly).
They should mostly do this by default and I believe there's a dedicated option for it.  I generally just group my carriers into one blob and let them have at it.

* I managed to miss a delivery mission for independents. It was the only mission I failed. I got -5 rep. Fine, I deserve that. Several cycles later I'm hit by a ginourmous fleet (battlecruiser, 6*superfreighters, 4*assault carriers, 15+ cruisers...) which the comms is telling me is in retribution for failing the delivery. Can you say: Disproportionate. (That was about 6* more powerful than my fleet. Lvl 46)
Yeah....Disproportionate might be one off the key words to summarize areas where star sector still needs polish.

* Some listed missile ammo's cover the multiples they split into, others do not. This can be confusing when trying to work out what to equip. I get that this is because of the different types (some missles launch as one and split, some launch as many), but maybe it should say "limited volleys" with the number being how many times you can fire? (With the damage still showing the multiples as applicable).
Yeah # of volleys is probably a needed metric.

* If you use the starmap to set a destination by clicking on a star, it should navigate to a jump point for the star if there is one, not the star itself. I ended up in a blackhole that way! :-/
I'm still torn on this.  I like that, in theory, jumping right next to the star is possible.  In practice there's basically never any reason to do it, although I think several could be added.

* One of my colonies in particular keeps getting raided (by various factions). Eventually they took down the starbase, and now all the raids succeed because there is no starbase and they raid while it's still "disrupted". This has happened at least 5 times in a row now! Starfortress, heavy batteries, patrol, size 7, 270% fleet, me administrating with all 3 colony perks.
Basically a known issue.  Again colony related stuff just got added last patch and is still very much a work in progress.  There's some ways to mitigate this but it can absolutely get annoying.
 
* The pirates keep setting up next to one of my colonies in particular. Then I go there and destroy them, then a few months later they're at it again... :-/ Happened at least 4 times. Colony has patrol, surely they should, you know, patrol known pirate places. (Another colony has High Command).
Yeeeup.  Same as the previous one.  Very annoying, known issue, some ways to mitigate.
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