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Author Topic: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?  (Read 4560 times)

goroth obarskyr

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Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« on: May 13, 2020, 09:36:34 PM »

I've been playing Starsector a relatively short while now so take this with a grain of salt, but it feels like going for transverse jump early on every time would be a no brainer. It seems like clearly the most powerful skill. This got me wondering if it would make more sense to not be a character skill at all, instead perhaps an ability that only certain ships could be able to do, or a rare hull mod. Do you guys think Transverse Jump is too good, or am I overrating it?
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2020, 10:55:46 PM »

Transverse jump is really very powerful skill, but you definitely overrate it. You can play without it and suffer minimal difficulties. It is not "must have" option. Many players actually ignoring it, spending CP on battle skills.

Slight nerf, like increasing CR loss, fuel cost, big cooldown or something else, won't be a bad idea, tho'.


P.S. Most powerful skill is probably something like "officer management" - it can increase your fleet strength like 2-3 times. IMO, off course. But not Transverse jump.
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Terethall

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2020, 12:00:26 AM »

I only use it to save a little time jumping into systems at gravity wells. I've also used it maybe three times to get out of Redacted systems where they were camping the jump points. It's too slow to use it to escape fleets close enough to potentially catch you.
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Havoc

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2020, 01:24:40 AM »

it is must have skill
because it is cheap.
 you have also +1 burn speed there
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tomatopaste

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2020, 04:05:29 AM »

I've always thought that transverse jumping out of a system while in populated space should cause issues with patrols in the area, it's too easy to trade on the black market and jump into hyperspace while in orbit of a planet.
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Mordodrukow

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2020, 04:30:43 AM »

I m using TJ to escape black holes and to deal with neutron stars (allows to go "deeper" to loot/investigate more stuff).
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Grievous69

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2020, 04:49:08 AM »

I've always thought that transverse jumping out of a system while in populated space should cause issues with patrols in the area, it's too easy to trade on the black market and jump into hyperspace while in orbit of a planet.
I wouldn't be surprised if Alex makes it a baseline skill and then makes it illegal in civilized sector as you described. It's simply crazy to have such a skill behind a skill point, especially when you also get +1 burn. There's not a single playstyle when Navigation is useless or a bad pick.

Now for OP claiming it to be the most powerful skill, I'd also disagree and say Loadout Design 3 is the best imo since it buffs every single one of your ships. You could argue it's the most useful skill since it saves you time.
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Megas

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2020, 05:50:38 AM »

If I remember, it will be a Tier 1 skill Technology skill.  It competes with Sensors.  Player has a choice between Transverse Jump or Neutrino Detector on the skill tree.  Alex might have wrote that the abilities would also be unlocked another way, probably a quest.  As for me, Navigation would be the no-brainer choice over Sensors.  Hopefully, there will not be needle-in-haystack pirate bases that are impossible to find without Neutrino Detector.

As for OP, I lived without Navigation for a long time, trying to eek out more skill points for combat, and the experience is painful and unpleasant.  Eventually, I took it and I agree with the others that it is a must-have skill, even if it is useless in a direct fight.  Without Navigation, fleets drink up lots of fuel, so player might need to bring another Prometheus to support his endgame fleet.  Burn speed is important when the sector is burning down.  Navigation lets player dump two tugs or Augmented Drive Field.  If player has a game where a pirate base respawns repeatedly in a neutron star, Transverse Jump can let the player avoid pulsar beams, or at least not cross them twice per visit.  Finally, if your home colony is in a big system far from a jump-point, being able to T-Jump out of the system instead of spending in-game days traveling from planet to gate is nice.

As for most powerful skill, my vote goes to #1 Electronic Warfare 1, #2 Loadout Design 3, and #3 Fleet Logistics.  Electronic Warfare 1 as defense against enemy fleets with EW1.  The alternative of cramming ECM hullmod on all of your ships is very painful.  Loadout Design 3 makes your ships less OP starved.  Fleet Logistics has too much useful stuff in and out of combat.  I like the ship recovery with officers so that Reinforced Bulkheads is not necessary.

Officer Management varies by fleet composition.  If the most the player can fit is three Paragons, player can get by without any.  If player can consistently cram eleven ships in battle, then sure, Officer Management is must-have.  Personally, I would like at least 1 in Officer Management.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 06:00:03 AM by Megas »
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bobucles

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2020, 06:14:42 AM »

Transverse jump is supremely powerful. It lets you avoid many of the hazards that kill low and high level players alike. Dodge jump point traps, escape from enemy pursuit, and it even breaks the tutorial as a bonus. It's definitely a top pick for early game.

A multi year veteran can make do without T jump, but then again they can beat the game without a single talent point. Take that as you will.

Daynen

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2020, 06:42:10 AM »

TJ is most definitely the best quality-of-life skill in the game.  It removes waiting periods and allows mobility in ways that NPCs simply do not have.  It's by no means required to succeed or enjoy the game but I think for most people it's REALLY hard to pass up.  The prerequisites to get it are also fairly good choices on their own, making it a fairly easy choice to spend the three aptitude points in technology anyway.  If used responsibly, the CR cost is meaningful but not impossible to stomach; in other words, just about right.  A slight increase to the fuel usage wouldn't go amiss, just to keep players from being TOO generous with it, but as it stands it FEELS pretty good in terms of cost vs. function.
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SCC

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2020, 08:43:00 AM »

It's okay. I played with it and without it and it doesn't change much, save for making system jumps a bit more interactive. I do alt-tab out of the game for (long) travels, so that might be a factor.

Eji1700

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2020, 09:13:28 AM »

It's S+ on the whole "make my life more convenient so I can play more starsector" side, and probably a solid A otherwise.

It doesn't enable too much gameplay wise, but being able to dip out of a hostile sector (either from ships or stars) is very nice, and the skills on the path to get it are super helpful.  As for time savings though it's hard to beat, which is its own problem.
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Mordodrukow

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2020, 09:25:33 AM »

TJ is OK by itself, but with +2 burn it also saves you 11% of your time (which basically means you get 11% more money). Or at least it saves 2 fleet slots and some fuel, if you use Oxes.
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DubTre6

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2020, 10:35:36 AM »

TJ is OK by itself, but with +2 burn it also saves you 11% of your time (which basically means you get 11% more money). Or at least it saves 2 fleet slots and some fuel, if you use Oxes.

I find myself rushing navigation 3 just for this bonus in my newer playthroughs. Opens up the whole world of burn 9 ships without suffering the speed penalty.
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dead_hand

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Re: Is Transverse Jump Too Good?
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2020, 03:31:51 PM »

I think it's not 'too good' but definitely one of the few 'must haves'. Imho it's more of a convenience factor rather than any raw power it provides: It saves time, as there is no need to drag the fleet to a jump point to exit to hyperspace, so great for lazy admirals such as myself. It's also useful in hyperspace, sometimes jumping into a nascent gravity well can allow you to scout a system to see if there's any danger.
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