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Author Topic: Balancing Change Ideas  (Read 4722 times)

ubuntufreakdragon

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Balancing Change Ideas
« on: May 10, 2020, 05:39:50 PM »

Locust SRM Missile:
The primary goal of this missile is to counter Carriers, but carries get unlimited reinforcements while the Locus has limited ammo.
I with for a slow regeneration like 1missile/sec (which is very slow given its weapons rate of fire) to make it more useful in its primary role.
It's already fragmentation dmg so there is only a little chance of this being exploited.

Commerce Industry:
Doesn't feel like an industry more like a structure, it only offer benefits if the player visits that colony which is quite rare.
On the other side all other industries provide a passive benefit.
btw. why do you have to pay taxes here, your faction are the one who takes the taxes.

Techmining:
It would be nice if it would work as a weak source of metals supplies and organics, depending on the ruins density.
Think of it as recycling the ruins that have been searched already.

How about having the waystation store small amounts of heavy machinery transplutonics metals violates and marines in the stockpiles as these are resources needed by the player as well?

Administrators definitely need to be buffed given Alpha Core can be farmed in Remnant space.
You should be able to hire more than limit administrators at a cost e.g. doubled upkeep.
Administrators may be buffed by governing a solar system instead of only a colony.
Administrators could be leveled up.

A damaged synchrotron item would be a nice addition to the loot tables.
The just drop to often for their price and should be on par with Nanoforges.

Safety Procedures 3 skill should remove the CR penalty of the Traverse Jump Ability as well it you happen to have it.

It would be nice to have skills to increase your fleet size and deployment points slightly to distinguish more between one ship and fleet playstyles.
E.g. each Fleet Logistics lvl allows 2 additional ships.
Electronic Warfare 2 reduces the enemies deployment point base on the ECM values of the hole fleet. lvl 3 allows you to steal these points instead. up to~20 points.
Coordinated Manoeuvrers 2 and 3 could give +15 deployment points each.

two more skill point for your main char would be nice being forced to have at least one skill not at lvl 3 just locks bad.
How about a one time respec item as reward e.g. for the red planet.

How about to Expand the Hegemony Auxiliary list, Larger fleets need larger supply you know.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 08:37:01 AM by ubuntufreakdragon »
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Megas

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2020, 06:17:59 PM »

Locust murders frigates and weaker destroyers.  Also puts a big dent in battleships that lost armor.  Locust is an all-purpose weapon.  That said, I would not be opposed to ammo regeneration.

Commerce will be changed.  Rather, income will be nerfed (high stability will not give more income next release), and Commerce will be required to get that lost income back.  But it will come with a big stability penalty.

Techmining used to produce commodities, and attracted expeditions left-and-right as a result.  Expeditions are bad early in the game.

Player can respec whenever as long as he has story points next release.
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Mordodrukow

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2020, 07:24:23 AM »

Quote
Techmining:
I have another idea about that:
We already have some faction settings like fleet doctrine etc. I suggest to add some new settings to reflect your faction's attitude for some things. Like:
- Tech attitude. You can set it to "dislike/doesn't matter/like". The higher your attitude to technologies, the lower will be your relations with Luddic Path and Luddic Church. Also, higher attitude will increase the cost you are ready to pay for technologies. What does it mean:
1) Your citizens can find some technologies on the planets with ruins. If you dislike tech - they will probably sell what they found on the black market. If you like tech - you will pay big reward to those, who found new tech (literally means: you get blueprint/something else in the storage and lose some money). If your attitude is on average, then there are some chances.
2) Random space explorers can find some technologies in abandoned research stations ect.. They will want to sell em for maximum price, but also will count with the distance they need to travel to sell the thing. So, the chances that you will get new tech will be based on combination of your planets accessibility and your attidute to tech (cause it affects prices).
And then we just delete techmining as an industry, cause we dont need it.

- Migration attitude. Can be set to "no/between own planets/everywhere". Will affect population growth. Migration means: people want to live on planes with better QoL (less hazard rating, less tariffs/taxes etc). If you set it to "no", it means, you spend no money and people need to pay for travel and new home on their own. If you set it to "between own planets", you will support those, who want to travel between your colonies. And "everywhere" means, you allow migration to other factions, who also allows this. Migration between factions also will make espionage easier (if only the game will get this mechanics, but Nex already has it)

Some unhappy people can migrate to other faction's planets. Some will become pirates.

- Free port. We changing the attitude to criminals from single colony to entire faction. Works as it does already: -to stability, but +to accassibility. And makes some factions mad. Also rises the chances black market will be created on your planets, but increases chances, that it is created by your own gouverment and will give you some profit anyway.

- Tariffs/taxes. You can set em to "low/mid/high". The higher the tafiffs, the more money you will get, but your people will be sad.

- Worker's salary. Again: "low/mid/high". Higher salary means bigger upkeeps for industries, more people happiness, lesser spawn of availiable space crew on market, cause nobody wants to risk their own lives having good payments. Also high salary will increase goods prices, because of inflation (if the demand is bigger than offer). Low salary can result in lesser industry effectiveness (less people wanna work than industry needs).

- Security payments. The bigger they are, the lesser chances to become spy victims, the better chances to find luddic cells and information about them, the lesser percentage of unhappy people will become pirates, the better ground defences on planets. But also bigger upkeep cost.
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ubuntufreakdragon

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2020, 10:38:09 AM »

Allow pollution and decivilized modifiers to be removed legally from colonies (I know about the double colonize exploit), for quite some cost.

If many fleets meet in one battle e.g. 2 defending player AI fleets 3 large pirate Armadas and the player fleet there should be more than 360 deployment points in total as such a fight takes just too much time, how about adding up all deployment costs of all fleets subtract 1000 divide by 3 and add the result to the total deployment points.

If you have a diverse fleet with some slow capitals and some fast frigates, those frigates could fly ahead and map the path such that the slower ships could fly with less evasive actions,
e.g. new burn lvl = old burn + (average burn - slowest burn)/2, this would make frigates more interesting in late game, also it should have a higher effect in slowing surroundings.

It would be nice to have a medium energy weapon that's a bit better against heavy armor, maybe an anti armor beam a smaller version of the high intensity laser.
Beams could deal a small proportion of their damage as hardflux e.g. 25%hard 75%soft, at least the graviton beam should get some hard flux.
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Grievous69

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2020, 10:57:15 AM »

It would be nice to have a medium energy weapon that's a bit better against heavy armor, maybe an anti armor beam a smaller version of the high intensity laser.
Excuse me what? There's loads of weapons already good vs armor, shields are the problem. Heavy Blaster, Phase Lance, Mining Blaster are all pretty good vs armor, and that's almost half of the medium weapons...
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SCC

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2020, 11:33:43 AM »

You can increase maximum battlesize by modifying the Starsector\starsector-core\data\config\settings.json file. Change "maxBattleSize" value to whatever you want.
The reason why beams have such high range is because they don't deal any hard flux at all. Otherwise, high-tech ships could just kite enemy ships to death with their superior range and mobility.

Megas

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2020, 11:40:42 AM »

It would be nice to have a medium energy weapon that's a bit better against heavy armor, maybe an anti armor beam a smaller version of the high intensity laser.
Excuse me what? There's loads of weapons already good vs armor, shields are the problem. Heavy Blaster, Phase Lance, Mining Blaster are all pretty good vs armor, and that's almost half of the medium weapons...
This is why high-tech without ballistics (or plasma cannons) suffer so much.  It is either Sabots and Expanded Missile racks plus energy weapons, or few weapons with max capacitors and vents, plus all of the flux boosting and shield efficiency hullmods.  High-tech ships with only one or two weapons and every other mount empty is almost as bad and stupid looking as unarmed carriers.

Alex revealed his new anti-armor SRMs.  How about some for anti-shield (that are not lame like Squalls with awful tracking and not enough ammo, and more AI-friendly than Sabots), if there will not be any anti-shield energy weapons worth using?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 11:47:20 AM by Megas »
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2020, 11:45:13 AM »

Beams could deal a small proportion of their damage as hardflux e.g. 25%hard 75%soft, at least the graviton beam should get some hard flux.

That would make it most powerful weapon ever. I mean it. They are already good. In suppression role they are already best among all energy (and even most of ballistic) weapons. I already imagine Paragons and Odysseys  armed entirely with HIL and GB + advanced optics.

Making 25% hard flux to beams as an expensive hullmod (with some kind of debuff, maybe) is much better idea.
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TaLaR

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2020, 12:03:43 PM »

Gravitons have 2 roles:
- full soft flux pressure, which only a Paragon is good enough at. Though Paragon has only 2 slots to spend on Gravs (universals are better used for ballistics even on 4xTL Optics build).
- flux debuff to reduce enemy weapon flux usage while you are using other hard flux weapons (Eagle, Falcon, Aurora, Radiant).

I wouldn't bother to pay for expensive hullmod for either of these scenarios for just 25% hard flux. It would take ages to kill anything with that (even if quite unavoidable when used against slower, short ranged ship), you'd just run out of PPT/CR.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2020, 04:08:52 PM »

Full beam aurora can put out 1125 dps of 1000 range soft flux (without skills) which is enough to overpower most ships. Not really worth the 30 DP though IMO.
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TaLaR

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2020, 05:12:26 PM »

Not really worth the 30 DP though IMO.

Exactly the point. Plus, a 4xTL Paragon can exploit AI quirks to kill ships when it actually can't push through shields (other Paragon or Radiant), beams Aurora is absolutely useless against large ships with good shields.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2020, 05:26:08 PM »

Not really worth the 30 DP though IMO.

Exactly the point. Plus, a 4xTL Paragon can exploit AI quirks to kill ships when it actually can't push through shields (other Paragon or Radiant), beams Aurora is absolutely useless against large ships with good shields.

I think if you full spammed them it would be good, but I'm too lazy to try it. Two of them is enough to outflux a maxed out paragon pretty much.
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TaLaR

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2020, 05:52:34 PM »

AI lacks persistence with full beams builds, letting enemy dissipate for just few seconds is a huge total time loss.

Paragon can have around 2k dissipation and 0.45 shield ( hardened) before skills. And Auroras would be vulnerable to getting focus fired. Or Paragon could just vent in their face, tacs+gravs are not much against armor.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2020, 09:52:01 PM »

AI lacks persistence with full beams builds, letting enemy dissipate for just few seconds is a huge total time loss.

Paragon can have around 2k dissipation and 0.45 shield ( hardened) before skills. And Auroras would be vulnerable to getting focus fired. Or Paragon could just vent in their face, tacs+gravs are not much against armor.


Just tested it for fun: 2 auroras with full beams, base OP and 70 CR vs sim paragon and also 4xTL paragon. I didn't have the patience to let it play all the way out, but 2 auroras seemed like they were winning easily when I gave up. The auroras are just never in any danger, they can flank at will and since they have such a mobility advantage, they do a fairly good job of staying in range. In both cases when I gave up, the auroras had taken no damage and the paragons armor was cracked/ it was taking hull damage. Once the armor is cracked, 14 tac lasers and 6 gravs do 1650 hull dps which is respectable, although it doesn't necessarily line up with the spots the armor has cracked. I don't think the paragon can ever win. The 4x TL paragon actually fares quite a bit worse because it is too slow to line up all 4 TLs and usually just wastes a bunch of flux firing the hard points (the variant had them all linked I think). Aurora has really good shields (and my variant had hardened shields and a decent number of caps too) so it could tank multiple 4x TL bursts without much issue. The paragon also builds up a lot of flux itself by using fortress shield and firing its weapons so the auroras don't need to flux it out just by beam pressure.

If I was going for a true beam spam fleet, I would just mix in some sunders with HIL which would speed things up a lot, or a beam paragon. I think beam aurora on its own is bad, but beam stacking doesn't scale linearly and in a fully committed beam fleet, I think it would be one of the best ships you could add. Beam aurora is virtually invulnerable and probably provides the most soft flux/DP of any ship.
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TaLaR

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Re: Balancing Change Ideas
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2020, 12:08:15 AM »

Checked out myself, there are several problems for AI Paragon here:
1) Most important: suicide by fortress shield. 2 Auroras can't really overflux it (tested by just disabling autopilot with shields up), but fortress shield can. Without this Auroras would have gotten nowhere.
2) Attention split: AI doesn't focus 1 Aurora at a time, splitting weapon fire between them and often rotating in between. Aux Thrusters are quite useful too.
3) 4xTL is a player ship build, at least for anything more than lazy long range support.

Player piloted 4xTL can win by intentionally letting the TLs build up high flux on itself. This makes Auroras unwilling to retreat despite own high flux. Since I already know that only my own weapons can raise my flux levels, it's actually safe as long as I'm cautious.
This one of fundamental AI flaws, it reacts to percentile flux levels comparison. Which can be suicidal against far superior opponent like Paragon.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 12:23:00 AM by TaLaR »
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