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Poll

What form of Campaign leveling would you prefer?

Standard XP
Buy upgrades as levels
XP and Upgrade buying

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Author Topic: Campaign leveling.  (Read 19072 times)

CaptanSpudsy

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Campaign leveling.
« on: March 25, 2012, 12:11:21 PM »

So what leveling/persistance system do you want in Starfarer? I can think of 3 options that would work well with it:
Standard XP- Just the sterotypical level system in place with most RPGs, you level and get a boost to all of your stats.
Buying Upgrades- Dark Souls style, you spend money to increase your perks and such.
XP and Buying Upgrades- A mix between the two, so you'd have to reach a certain level and than buy what upgrades you'd want.

What's everyone's opions on these systems? Also, what other systems could work well with Starfarer?


Spudsy
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Aeolun

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2012, 12:22:55 PM »

I think it would be a good idea to buy new abilities/upgrades/stat boosts with 'upgrade points' you obtain every level (1, or more at higher levels).

That is, if there even SHOULD be a leveling system. You could also make it so that using certain things increases your effectiveness with them. Say, shooting guns for a while is likely to make you better at aiming.
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CaptanSpudsy

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2012, 12:32:34 PM »

So, a bit like how Skyrim does its upgrade system.

I can see a problem with that in the fact that you're not actually firing your weapons, your crew is.
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Upgradecap

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2012, 12:41:51 PM »

So, a bit like how Skyrim does its upgrade system.

I can see a problem with that in the fact that you're not actually firing your weapons, your crew is.
Well, technically, you are firing your weapons, It's just your crew who aims them :D
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arwan

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2012, 01:14:08 PM »

a mix that is distinctly independent from one another. so what does that mean one might ask. well.

you gain XP just like most RPG games do. and you level up with that xp bettering your character with the stats that your character can impose on your fleet. such as more fleet points (becoming better at managing captains) or an increase in starting deployment points when you enter a map (formation strategy?) stuff like that, that is not dictated by ships (cargo space fuel space speed etc.)

that brings me to the next part the buying upgrades part.. which could be much more varied. things like officer survivability (installing captain escape shuttles on ships) or possibly expanded hanger space. (installed on carriers) things that are more physical but not overlapping with the hull mods to keep them significant and meaningful

so the basic over view for me would be

your character gains XP and improves in a non physical object way as in developing his mental skills and abilities as a captain.
you purchase fleet upgrades. the physical upgrades that you make fleet wide. possibly ship/play style dependent... as my example expanded hangar space for carrier type ships only.

at least that is my take on what i think could be really engaging for a leveling system.
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You won't be able to refit fighters and bombers at all. They're designed/balanced around having a particular set of weapons and would be very broken if you could change it. Which ones you pick for your fleet -out of quite a few that are available- is the choice here, not how they're outfitted.

jet36

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2012, 01:30:48 PM »

Dark souls style, so then you can be a certain kind of "class". :)
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Iscariot

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2012, 01:44:44 PM »

In a game like Starfarer, I don't think XP makes any kind of sense. The game takes away so much control from you in combat, so it seems natural to me that it would give you the utmost degree of control OUT of combat, namely the ability to build your character the way you want and to customize your ship down to the single point of OP.

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Dreyven

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2012, 01:54:25 PM »

Dark souls style, so then you can be a certain kind of "class". :)

No, please anything but a class system...
it really hurts to be "stuck" in a class system

i would suggest officers, they have certain skills (bonuses) and level up as they gain Exp

you can only have X amount of officers (increasing as you progress through the game and can buy and sell them at stations)
if you want to change them, just sell them and buy new ones but! the new officers start fresh
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Iscariot

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2012, 02:08:44 PM »

Dark Souls doesn't actually have much of a class system. You choose a class at the start, but all it really does is determine what your starting stats and equipment are. After that, everything is a point-buy, which is how I think it should be done.
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The idea is that the various tech levels represent different - not "better" - ways to do things.

cp252

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 02:33:07 PM »

Being able to buy and sell your way out of a class system would be fine I think. Selling your freighters for fast frigates and turning from trader to pirate, say.
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Thaago

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2012, 02:45:44 PM »

On the one hand I like deep tree point buys, where you can mix and match from different categories but there are prerequisites for the really good stuff. On the other hand I'm kind of sick of single player games where I have to start over to experiment with a different playstyle.

How about whatever the system is, we have the option to wipe our choices at some large cost? Or maybe just export the character to a new game with a brand new frigate and no cash, but still with the same level/experience/points as before (wiped clean that is)?
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CaptanSpudsy

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2012, 05:31:17 PM »

How about whatever the system is, we have the option to wipe our choices at some large cost? Or maybe just export the character to a new game with a brand new frigate and no cash, but still with the same level/experience/points as before (wiped clean that is)?

Like a new game+ style? That would be entertaining if they made the game more difficult (again, Dark Souls style).
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Valhalla

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2012, 05:42:32 PM »

Think EQs/WOWs weapons skills, Kinda like that maybe? But each captain has their own set thats starts off anywhere between say 25% to 65% (but all the stats start off at different levels say one has navigation at 37% and gunnery at 54% when you first get them) and as you use those skills they level up say if you manually destroy a very very fast ship with a slow weapon, would give bonus to that skills level progression than destroying the same ship with a fast firing weapon, for those rare times you can actually do it.

or even have different weapon types use different skill types and have those all total into your overall gunnery skill? Which means you can spec into say engery weapons and not missiles or ballistic and still do well even with a lower overall gunnery skill? And say at certain points in that skills progression (if you placed a cap on it per level, like 100 for lvl 1, 125 for lvl2 so you dont get to like skill 400 at level 4 or something, to keep it balanced) you unlock a certain amount of perks which each level gives you a number of perk points (more per level past a certain point since gaining very high levels would take longer, there should be a better reward for getting to them then say lvls 1-10) and you could pick a perk from that tree (maybe only one or two perks per skill level tree so you cant just get all of them at maximum level, you have to do trade offs)/

It would foster more of an attachment to the players own captain along with the ones you hire, keep alive and level.


(Quickly throw together sample, if more people like it, ill try throwing together a MSPaint version of it with more detail {'s mean the total skill level required for said perk. Also maybe allow us to see perks within 50-60 points of our current skill level, so we might be able to plan which perks we want to get later?)
Gunnery 64/100 Perks [+10% to fire rate{25}, +5% laser/kinetic/fragmentation/HE damage(drop down list of damage types to pick from?){50}]
Navigation 46/100 [-15% FTL fuel consumption{35}]
Shield operation  52/100 [-5% damage to shields{25}, +10% shield deployment speed{50}]
Armour Fitting 45/100 [+5% Armor damage absorption {40}]
Salvage 37/100 [+5% better chance of saving a disabled ship from being scrapped {35}]
Engine Tuning 35/100 [+3% faster combat and/or travel speed{35} (maybe another drop down menu to pick from?)]

Hows that?
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espritcrafter

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2012, 09:21:03 PM »

Have you guys ever played Shattered Galaxy? Clout, Education, Tactics, and Mechanical Aptitude; I believe these attribute categories translate very well over to Starfarer.

Here's a rough breakdown:

Clout - Level of political influence that allows you to have access to a wider range of units to purchase.
Education - This determines what weapons you are able to understand and utilize on the battlefield.
Tactics - Influences max deployed squad size as well as max reserves size.
Mechanical Aptitude - Increase the amount/size of equipment you can equip a unit with.

With minor tweaking, I believe that this fits very well into a core set of attributes. I'm pretty sure we can have a secondary list of attributes as well, but this is a great starting point.
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Iscariot

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Re: Campaign leveling.
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2012, 09:22:54 PM »

I played SG back in the day, and I agree that some of those stats carry very well. I do think they'd need to be expanded though, since personal skill and reflexes WOULD play into a small ship captain's resume.
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