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Author Topic: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury  (Read 4173 times)

Megas

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #105 on: April 28, 2020, 04:32:46 PM »

The only thing I'd worry about with free SO with story points is that it reduces the incentive to recover Luddic Path hulls and keep them around in your fleet for a while.
LP ships get intrinsic SO for free and still have two slots for additional permamods.  Putting SO for other hulls take one of the two permamod slots (and a story point to add permamod in the first place).

SO is expensive, but so is Augmented Drive Field and Heavy Armor.  I probably will burn Augmented Drive Field as a permamod for my battleships.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #106 on: April 28, 2020, 04:47:54 PM »

Don't all LP ships also have the Ill-advised modifications hull mod? Also there are only a few ships with a LP variant.
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Inventor Raccoon

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #107 on: April 28, 2020, 04:50:18 PM »

Ill-Advised Modifications gets removed on restore just like any other D-mod, and is just about the only thing that stops those ships from being nightmarish SO murder-machines, because they're not terribly threatening when their guns permanently short out 2 seconds into a volley.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #108 on: April 28, 2020, 05:11:03 PM »

Ill-Advised Modifications gets removed on restore just like any other D-mod, and is just about the only thing that stops those ships from being nightmarish SO murder-machines, because they're not terribly threatening when their guns permanently short out 2 seconds into a volley.

I actually didn't know that, I've never intentionally taken one of their ships because of I'll advised modifications. Is there an LP dominator in the base game? I've been playing with mods that add extra LP ships, so I don't remember what is in the base game.

SO is expensive, but so is Augmented Drive Field and Heavy Armor.  I probably will burn Augmented Drive Field as a permamod for my battleships.

SO costs twice as many OP as augmented drive field or heavy armor. It's just not noticeable because there is no SO for capitals and HA and ADF are mostly used on capitals.

There's also almost no chance I will ever put ADF as a permammod. There's no way to ever max combat power once you do that. I would just put the most expensive combat hull mods and then have ADF as a normal hull mod that I can swap out whenever I need to. I have trouble imagining a situation where that wouldn't be better. You have like ~10 less OP when you're using ADF but if you ever need the combat power of that extra 10 OP, you can just take the ADF off to get way more combat power and either bring extra tugs or deal with the reduced burn for a little bit.
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Megas

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #109 on: April 28, 2020, 06:07:56 PM »

ADF on capital is expensive, and I want it so I do not need to haul two more tugs (and possibly a tanker for extra fuel due to two tugs and extra tanker slurping about as much fuel as a capital) in my fleet.  Since it is probably the most expensive hullmod I pay for, and probably one that I will leave on the ship at all times, it makes sense to permamod it so I have more OP for combat stuff, instead of permamodding combat stuff and paying more OP for Augmented Drive Field that I will probably leave on the ship, and have less OP for the other combat stuff I want.

If babysitting remains as insane as it is now, I will settle for nothing less than burn 20, and I do not want a bunch of tugs to do it, especially if I do not have Navigation.

I guess I can care less about burn speed if I plan on total core kill by any means necessary and befriend pirates to eliminate all babysitting.  Then again, the Pather bug will be fixed, so player may need to babysit if he wants to alpha spam colonies.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #110 on: April 28, 2020, 09:04:19 PM »

ADF on capital is expensive, and I want it so I do not need to haul two more tugs (and possibly a tanker for extra fuel due to two tugs and extra tanker slurping about as much fuel as a capital) in my fleet.  Since it is probably the most expensive hullmod I pay for, and probably one that I will leave on the ship at all times, it makes sense to permamod it so I have more OP for combat stuff, instead of permamodding combat stuff and paying more OP for Augmented Drive Field that I will probably leave on the ship, and have less OP for the other combat stuff I want.

If babysitting remains as insane as it is now, I will settle for nothing less than burn 20, and I do not want a bunch of tugs to do it, especially if I do not have Navigation.

I guess I can care less about burn speed if I plan on total core kill by any means necessary and befriend pirates to eliminate all babysitting.  Then again, the Pather bug will be fixed, so player may need to babysit if he wants to alpha spam colonies.

My point was more that if you choose to permamod a different combat hull mod that costs less than ADF and then install ADF as a normal hullmod, you retain the option of removing ADF for particularly difficult fights which gives you more total OP dedicated to combat than you would have with ADF built in. I would still use ADF, I would just install it normally to retain the option of removing it for a full combat build. I guess my thinking is like 'pay a small OP tax in normal fights to have the option of having extra OP and no ADF in harder fights'.

I also am content with 18 or 19 burn so I will have a few less tugs.
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Amoebka

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #111 on: April 29, 2020, 01:51:18 AM »

Didn't Alex say that variant-specific hullmods will count towards the limit? I.e. LP ships have built-in SO but can only support one story point upgrade, not two.

LP is still fine this way, but some other ships with built-in mods, like Hound(A) or Brawler(TT) will become even less desireable.
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Megas

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #112 on: April 29, 2020, 07:52:28 AM »

Didn't Alex say that variant-specific hullmods will count towards the limit? I.e. LP ships have built-in SO but can only support one story point upgrade, not two.

LP is still fine this way, but some other ships with built-in mods, like Hound(A) or Brawler(TT) will become even less desireable.
I do not remember, but if that is true, it would royally hurt ships like Odyssey, who gets intrinsic High-Resolution Sensors and ECCM for free.
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Igncom1

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #113 on: April 29, 2020, 08:31:05 AM »

Ill-Advised Modifications gets removed on restore just like any other D-mod, and is just about the only thing that stops those ships from being nightmarish SO murder-machines, because they're not terribly threatening when their guns permanently short out 2 seconds into a volley.

I thought that was a bug?
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #114 on: April 29, 2020, 08:58:39 AM »

Didn't Alex say that variant-specific hullmods will count towards the limit? I.e. LP ships have built-in SO but can only support one story point upgrade, not two.

LP is still fine this way, but some other ships with built-in mods, like Hound(A) or Brawler(TT) will become even less desireable.
I do not remember, but if that is true, it would royally hurt ships like Odyssey, who gets intrinsic High-Resolution Sensors and ECCM for free.

Depends on if you consider baseline Odyssey a variant.  Same goes for baseline Paragon with its range mod. My guess is no.  If it applied to all ships with free hullmods, the entire modding ecosystem is going to need a rebalance, since many factions provide a faction specific hullmod.  Also makes balancing ships with built in hullmods nearly impossible.  Either they're too strong in the early game, or too weak in the late game for the player.

What it would presumably hurt are things like the Falcon (P) and the XIV battlegroup ships, since those are definitely variants with an extra free hullmod.  Although maybe not for the Falcon (P) and the XIV Legion?  Not sure how different weapon mounts works under the hood.  On the other hand, the XIV ships are intended to be slightly more powerful than baseline anyways and generally have more OP to boot.  It effectively makes player ships with story points their own "skin", one which eventually (through time and story points) that can rival the XIV group, and perhaps surpass.

Although I haven't seen the post explaining this, so I'd definitely like a pointer to it if someone has one.
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Alex

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #115 on: April 29, 2020, 09:40:30 AM »

I.e. LP ships have built-in SO but can only support one story point upgrade, not two.

(Negative.)

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Eji1700

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #116 on: April 29, 2020, 10:39:49 AM »

I've only glanced the 8 pages but having a larger flanker seems fitting for High tech.  I still struggle with shrike loadouts but i'm eager to test this out, even if it is just more OP and a med slot.
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Amoebka

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #117 on: April 29, 2020, 10:49:30 AM »

(Negative.)

Now I'm royally confused. What's the "normal hullmod built into the variant" means then:

If it's built into the hull, they don't. If it's built into the variant (and is a "normal" hullmod), then it would. (No way to remove perma mods at the moment, though, say, removing d-mods piecemeal could be a decent use of a story point.)

Or is it because LP ships aren't "really" variants?
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Alex

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #118 on: April 29, 2020, 10:56:01 AM »

Ah - LP ships are implemented as "skins" (.skin files), which is functionally a shorthand way of specifying a different hull. With a few differences, but...
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Goumindong

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #119 on: April 29, 2020, 11:25:13 AM »

(Negative.)

Now I'm royally confused. What's the "normal hullmod built into the variant" means then:

If it's built into the hull, they don't. If it's built into the variant (and is a "normal" hullmod), then it would. (No way to remove perma mods at the moment, though, say, removing d-mods piecemeal could be a decent use of a story point.)

Or is it because LP ships aren't "really" variants?

@Alex

I think it means that you can run into ships that have permanent hull mods and loot them. Those ships are "variants" because the game has assigned a permanent hull mod to a normal ship as part of fitting it out rather than "skins" which are "entirely different base hulls"

So if you ran into an LP Brawler Variant that had Integrated Point Defense AI built in by the variant you would only have 1 more free hull mod and end up with 3 free hull mods in total.
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