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Author Topic: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury  (Read 14954 times)

TaLaR

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2020, 03:55:30 PM »

Seems even less impressive than Shrike, considering 15 DP cost.

Also, one problem with this kind of plasma burn rushers, is that larger ships obsolete the smaller ones. The food chain goes Odyssey -> Fury -> Shrike, without any chance to flee or fight back for smaller ships (unless AI actually learns to rotate before activating ship system for intentional retreat and reserve charges).

Onslaught -> Dominator -> Enforcer is another food chain, though it isn't as hard (Burn drive is larger commitment, and AI errs a lot on both sides of using it when too dangerous and not using when safe).
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 03:58:15 PM by TaLaR »
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Megas

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2020, 04:20:37 PM »

I would expect Fury to be added to the high-tech bundle pack.
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Goumindong

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2020, 04:50:49 PM »

It looks kidna fat. Like it needs to be shrunk on the lateral axis
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Thaago

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2020, 10:59:13 PM »

It all depends on the flux stats! If it has enough flux to support HB + Pulse (or 2 HB) then it has darn decent firepower.
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Histidine

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2020, 12:35:11 AM »

Balance parameters aside, I'm thinking that high tech doesn't need a Big Shrike, when it already has Shrike (and for that matter Medusa) on one end and Aurora on the other.

The two most notable gaps in the HT lineup, which I think would have been better candidates for a new ship:
- A ship focused on defense and/or firepower rather than speed, other than Paragon and arguably Apogee
- A sub-capital carrier
(and if we're considering it in terms of factions using ships from multiple tech lines, Falcon already exists too)

Thought: If Fury had Temporal Shell instead of Plasma Burn, that would probably obviate concerns about gun firepower and ability to disengage.
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Amoebka

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2020, 12:44:10 AM »

Seems like yet another high-tech ship that can only punch down in a game that entirely revolves around player punching up.

At least it looks good.
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Grievous69

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2020, 01:41:08 AM »

Yeah I'll give it that, looks better than the midline cruiser haha.

But here's the fun thing, it's supposed to be an upscaled Shrike, but it really isn't that different. You just need to change 1 small energy from Shrike, turn it into medium synergy and then you get this ship.  I get it's gonna have better flux stats obviously but it's also gonna be slower and easier to hit. Sorry if I'm sounding a bit too negative but I was also hoping something different than yet another ship for killing pirates. I understand high tech is all about fast maneuvers and taking opportunities but when almost all of the ships are that, who will do the actual brawling? We have Apogee, an exploration cruiser not even meant to see combat all the time yet it's better than every other cruiser (when comparing DP of course), and we have Paragon but I don't think it's fair to include it as it's an endgame ship and by then you won't be doing a whole lot of fancy strategies like in early/mid game.

@Histidine
I honestly forgot that system even existed, I wonder why...
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TaLaR

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2020, 01:54:38 AM »

Balance parameters aside, I'm thinking that high tech doesn't need a Big Shrike, when it already has Shrike (and for that matter Medusa) on one end and Aurora on the other.

Yeah, both Aurora and Medusa have much more size-appropriate mobility systems.

Plasma Burn was first introduced on Odyssey, and that's where it's at home.
- Odyssey doesn't have many ships it needs to flee from and can do that with base speed alone to a decent degree, so a system that allows fast approach/pursuit is good enough (and it can be used to retreat with some degree of inconvenience). In short, PB is a system for apex predator, not for prey.
- It also can be used to dodge enemy shots on a broadside ship. But broadside is only reasonably convenient to pilot at capital size, smaller broadside ships are pretty much impossible to efficiently pilot (as demonstrated by some mods).
- In addition, Plasma Burn contributes less to Shrike's/Fury's mobility than Odyssey's - it has same duration/reload and burst speed vs higher base speed of the ship.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 03:10:52 AM by TaLaR »
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Cyan Leader

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2020, 02:34:31 AM »

This should have been a carrier. A fast moving, hitting carrier is something the game doesn't have. 1 or 2 decks at most though.

Actually, on a second thought, maybe built in drones would have been a more interesting angle.
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Grievous69

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2020, 02:50:02 AM »

I was just thinking it would be cool to have a unique built in weapon to play around with, instead of another Sabot + Heavy Blaster platform. And while I agree high tech should have a smaller-than-capital carrier, having both speed and firepower with fighters sounds like way too much. I mean we already have two annoyingly fast carriers (Drover and Heron, seriously why the hell are they so fast). And if we had one of those, I'd pretty much always choose Longbows for them because it'd be way too strong (IF the ship had firepower). Built in drones sounds like a neat idea tho.

@TaLaR
Not only that, but the Odyssey is many times faster than capitals that can actually hurt it. Since this ship has an only-forward ship system, even an Eagle could catch up to it and kill it (we know Fury is fragile). I get that it's gonna be easy to get, but the more info I hear Alex reveal, the more I think it's hardly gonna be worth 15 DP. If I wanted a fast missile boat, Falcon (P) is already an easy choice. Fast hitting damage dealer, Shrike and Medusa exist, and if for some reason you want this thing to be an anchor, Apogee knocks it out of the water by a mile.

Man I was so hyped for a new high tech ship and even I can't seem to find the role it's gonna fill.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 02:51:59 AM by Grievous69 »
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Amoebka

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2020, 03:21:04 AM »

I mostly dislike the plasma burn because it's a frontal-weapons ship. Even in the gif you can see how awkward it is to use when you have to turn afterwards. Both Odyssey and Shrike are broadside (Shrike's main turret is biased towards the left side), but unless you use the synergy for sabots you need to face the enemy with Fury. Then again, you will probably be forced to use synergy for sabots anyway because a single heavy blaster overfluxes you, in which case this is literally Shrike but with more missiles.

I'm not buying the "common and earlygame" argument either. Hammerhead is common and earlygame. What can Fury do that it can't to justify 15 DP?
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Igncom1

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2020, 05:22:43 AM »

I suppose it's a good excuse to give a non-aurora high tech cruiser that isn't the Apogee (The starship enterprise of starsector).

Redundancy can be nice for alternative options and for fun lore where factions shouldn't have access to low tech or midline cruisers.
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DatonKallandor

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2020, 06:02:11 AM »

Hell, strip the plasma burn and give it two terminator drones and keep everything else the same and you've got a NASTY fast responder.
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Grievous69

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2020, 06:06:55 AM »

You mean Terminator drones like a ship system or built in like on the Tempest?
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Megas

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Re: The new high tech light cruiser - Fury
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2020, 06:22:00 AM »

If Fury ends up on the high-tech bundle, then it will likely be the "com mon" high-tech cruiser warship.  Falcon is on the midline bundle, after all.  It would be nice for the player to have a more warlike high-tech cruiser if the high-tech bundle is the first bundle he finds.  Wolf, Shrike, and Apogee are really lean.  As for sub-capital carrier, it would be nice to get one just to add to the high-tech bundle if found first.  Low-tech and midline bundles are good.  High-tech bundle is kind of lame.

Not fond of Plasma Burn on AI ships.  It is okay on an Odyssey playership, but for the AI, it can mean suicide by burning into the middle of a mob.  It is okay on Shrike because it is somewhat cheap and disposable, especially the pirate version that has the hybrid.  (I prefer the pirate version for conventional brawling, just wished it had more OP.)

Shrike cannot turn fast enough without either Combat skills or Auxiliary Thrusters.

Quote
In short, PB is a system for apex predator, not for prey.
With the way AI uses it, Odyssey becomes a prey ship if I try to use loadouts I want to use if I pilot it.  Plasma Burn makes AI Odyssey with two plasma cannons more suicidal than Onslaught.  Unlike Shrike, Odyssey is not cheap and disposable.

Quote
Seems like yet another high-tech ship that can only punch down in a game that entirely revolves around player punching up.
This is my problem with Aurora, with its high 30 DP cost.  It seems to work best at hunting and killing small fry, but not very good at killing big ships without Sabot spam, and AI is not very good at using Sabots.  I can pilot Aurora and kill some ships, but at its cost, I rather spend a little more DP and pilot either Doom or Onslaught/Conquest/Legion.  Even more so for an AI ship.
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