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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Combat buff ships for solo playstyle  (Read 7248 times)

SCC

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Re: Combat buff ships for solo playstyle
« Reply #75 on: April 21, 2020, 10:03:58 AM »

I know that, but IMO the correct solution would've been to give the player incentive to not solo rather than to punish them for it. As for AI, the simplest and best way to stop it from kiting would be to, y'know, stop it from kiting. The dev can't control the player's behavior, at least not directly, but he can directly control the AI's behavior. Programming the AI to kite and then introducing CR to 'solve' that problem seems... unwise, to say the least.
Making AI suicidal for no tactical gain would, on the other hand, negatively impact players who don't rely extensively on the flagship for doing damage.

Now the player barely matters
I guess Remnants barely matter as well.
It's not very exciting, no, but I didn't have anyone to herd the Remnants for me. Friendly ships can't win battles for me, if there are no friendly ships.
Funnily enough, smashing stations with a single ship (Paragon in that case), on the other hand, is actually fairly quick and cost effective, if you take enough combat skills.

That's a good thing, though. The AI ultimately exists to be defeated by the player, so giving the player effective strategies to do so is good for the game. Ever play Dark Souls?
I have not. If you want to run past your enemies, run past them in campaign. You don't have to fight them then. Campaign is a part of the game as well.
In addition to that, Starsector is ill-suited to giving the player too much power, because a) there are few enemies suited to taking a single, powerful and fast enemy (and, apparently, AI cannot be easily adapted to fighting a single or a few powerful ships without making it overly reckless in other situations), b) the player has infinite amount of flux available to negate infinite amount of damage, which doesn't really work well for fighting many inferior enemies.

If you put enemies on equal footing with the player and make them able to handle everything well, the only thing you create is frustration and boredom.
That's... The point of how AI fights in Starsector. You have fleets on both sides. Would making your fleet too dumb to live be worth making the enemy fleet too dumb to live as well? Then you might as well not have a fleet at all, just like in many other space games.

Megas

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Re: Combat buff ships for solo playstyle
« Reply #76 on: April 21, 2020, 10:44:40 AM »

Now the player barely matters
I guess Remnants barely matter as well.
It's not very exciting, no, but I didn't have anyone to herd the Remnants for me. Friendly ships can't win battles for me, if there are no friendly ships.
Funnily enough, smashing stations with a single ship (Paragon in that case), on the other hand, is actually fairly quick and cost effective, if you take enough combat skills.
It is a good thing alpha cores are all upside and Pather cells are bugged, so that those who enjoy the colony game do not need to sacrifice combat power to do so.  That was my big mistake from my last game.  Nine points in Industry solely to have a decent-sized self-sufficient empire without help from cores and no interference from Pathers - big mistake!

But, if alpha cores were bad because of functional Pather cells or otherwise legitimately do real bad things (like defect from your control), I probably would skip Combat skills reluctantly just so I can have an empire of several planets.  That would really hurt.

I hope Industrial Planning is not buried in the new skill system, if demand is still high.  I find that skill must-have because demand is too high without it.  (Even with IP2, few still need cores too to be self-sufficient.)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 10:51:48 AM by Megas »
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Sordid

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Re: Combat buff ships for solo playstyle
« Reply #77 on: April 21, 2020, 12:34:01 PM »

If you put enemies on equal footing with the player and make them able to handle everything well, the only thing you create is frustration and boredom.

That's... The point of how AI fights in Starsector.

What a shining endorsement.

Quote
You have fleets on both sides. Would making your fleet too dumb to live be worth making the enemy fleet too dumb to live as well?

Who says those two have to go hand in hand?

It is a good thing alpha cores are all upside and Pather cells are bugged, so that those who enjoy the colony game do not need to sacrifice combat power to do so.  That was my big mistake from my last game.  Nine points in Industry solely to have a decent-sized self-sufficient empire without help from cores and no interference from Pathers - big mistake!

Don't even get me started on the misguided design decision of forcing the player to choose between combat power and non-combat benefits. That's a whole other can of worms.

Quote
But, if alpha cores were bad because of functional Pather cells or otherwise legitimately do real bad things (like defect from your control), I probably would skip Combat skills reluctantly just so I can have an empire of several planets.  That would really hurt.

And that's exactly why.
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Megas

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Re: Combat buff ships for solo playstyle
« Reply #78 on: April 21, 2020, 01:21:20 PM »

Don't even get me started on the misguided design decision of forcing the player to choose between combat power and non-combat benefits. That's a whole other can of worms.
The worst example is Navigation.  For a long time, I held out at getting it because I wanted the three points into more combat skills.  Eventually, after getting tired of spending in-game week or so going to the jump point because I cannot get out immediately without Transverse Jump, or crossing pulsar beams too many times to reach a pirate base that repeatedly respawned in a neutron star, or bringing too many tugs, or poor fuel efficiency of my fleets, I finally took it.  I suppose it can improve combat power by letting player dumps some tugs and tankers he would otherwise need without it.

Runner-up is Sensors 1 for Neutrino Detector.  I was unlucky enough once to have a pirate base in Penelope's Star, and all of the usual tricks to find a pirate base within a minute or so did not work.  I spent thirty minutes scouring every planet and suspicious area to no avail.  I got the Detector, and eventually, it found the pirate base, which was in the outermost non-descript asteroid belt, far from any landmark.  Almost a literal needle in a haystack.
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