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Author Topic: Battle Stations scale with Battle Size  (Read 1229 times)

IronBorn

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Battle Stations scale with Battle Size
« on: April 10, 2020, 07:39:52 AM »

Be nice to see Battle Station fire power increase/decrease based on battle size.

300 is default, so if you increase battle size, stations get a health/flux/range/more fighters multiplier. For smaller battle sizes, stations would be nerfed a little bit in health/flux.
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Igncom1

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Re: Battle Stations scale with Battle Size
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2020, 07:43:11 AM »

Why?
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: Battle Stations scale with Battle Size
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2020, 07:55:13 AM »

Nerfing stations if smaller battle size is absolutely not an option. Stations are already weak - you can deal with them solo, if know their weaknesses. Smaller battlesize gives additional benefits to solo, as decrease amount of fleet, enemy able to deploy, increasing single piloted ship value. So combined, boringness.

Buff on larger battle sizes? Not sure. Especially on range multiplier. Hard to implement without ruining battle balance. Might be fun, tho'.

Why?

I'll double that question.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Battle Stations scale with Battle Size
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2020, 08:46:16 AM »

Perhaps a better solution would be to give faction battlestations some sort of "reserve" fleet to back them up. That would give some scaling with battle size.

The fleet would have to be inseparable from the station or else we're back to square one, and it must not interfere with raiding (at least the first raid).
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Thaago

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Re: Battle Stations scale with Battle Size
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2020, 09:47:06 AM »

Perhaps a better solution would be to give faction battlestations some sort of "reserve" fleet to back them up. That would give some scaling with battle size.

The fleet would have to be inseparable from the station or else we're back to square one, and it must not interfere with raiding (at least the first raid).

This is a very good idea. I like it both because it neatly solves the battle size problem and because station fights are more interesting when there is an enemy fleet around them, even if its a small one.
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FooF

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Re: Battle Stations scale with Battle Size
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2020, 11:32:21 AM »

I believe having a "reserve fleet" would penalize careful positioning/use of sensor mechanics specifically geared toward getting the station on its own. A battlestation is doable with a mid-game fleet (on its own) but once you start throwing fleets in there, it becomes much more difficult. Star Fortresses can handle end-game fleets fairly well by themselves and they're rarely alone. 

All that said, if reserve fleets were permanently attached, I think opposing mechanics could also be brought to bear. For example, a "sneak attack" would be possible if your sensor profile was some % of the stations (i.e. Go Dark or attacking from a nebula, etc.) and this would negate the reserve fleet. Likewise, a boarding action could sabotage the station's reserve fleet prior to the engagement.

An alternate idea, which may or may not be doable, would have special Station Patrols that are clearly marked. These always stay within the station's "ally" radius so attacking any of these fleets (at its default range) also engages the station. However(!), they can be baited outside of the station's ally radius, and if you gank them, it has some deleterious effect on the station itself. For example, on a Tier 1 Station, if you take out the Station Patrol, the station suffers a 15% received damage debuff (i.e. it takes 15% more damage). Higher tier stations have one more fleet per level, but each fleet destroyed further debuffs the station. These Station Patrols are not quick to be replaced (30 days?) like standard patrols.
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Megas

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Re: Battle Stations scale with Battle Size
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2020, 01:01:05 PM »

Which battlestations are getting attacked?

If it is major factions in core worlds, why fight them unless player is powerful enough to crush them (before razing the planet to the ground)?  The only time I bother blowing up their stations is to kill the planet underneath.  Otherwise, I will run and do something else more useful instead if I cannot stack the deck horribly against them.  If I am raiding, I prefer to avoid contact with guards and combat to minimize rep loss.

If core worlds are avoided, that leaves my stations when my colonies get attacked, or pirates', pathers', and Nexus stations.  I guess I can always take bigger fleets on my side to better immunize my colonies from raids.  Pirates are meant to be punching bags, so they do not need help (especially since they are immortal zombies who do not stay down).  Pathers are just annoying stronger pirates that can be avoided if player does not want to deal with them.  Nexus... why do I want to kill my infinite alpha core generator?

If I want to kill things, I prefer to separate fleets from battlestations.  If I can lure fleets away from the stations before I go for the kill on an undefended station, I will do it, unless I am so ludicrously overpowered that I do not care what is in the way.

As for the OP, that is begging to be munched by pausing and adjusting map size on the go if player knows what is coming, assuming he is not strong enough to roll over them either way.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Battle Stations scale with Battle Size
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2020, 01:24:02 PM »

I believe having a "reserve fleet" would penalize careful positioning/use of sensor mechanics specifically geared toward getting the station on its own.

It raises the baseline difficulty. Avoiding/luring away patrols would still make the fight easier.

IMO it is too easy to sneak in and blow up the major factions' stations right now. Making it harder to sneak would encroach on smuggling and raiding. Directly buffing stations would make them too strong when they have a supporting fleet.
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Megas

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Re: Battle Stations scale with Battle Size
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2020, 01:39:13 PM »

If the station has a reserve fleet, it would make sense to deploy it when player raids the planet (for blueprints).  That would help interrupt quick serial raiding.  Then again, come to think of it, if the station could deploy its reserves when it is attacked, it should be able to deploy it immediately to stop raids in the first place, preventing raids until the station is disabled.  In other words, reserve fleet does not make sense.

P.S.  Not to mention there is usually a big gigantic planet with a big spaceport underneath.  If the station has reserves, where are the planets' ships?  Reserve fleets seems like something that belongs in Star Control 2 where player fights an unwinnable battle against infinite ships if he tries to fight homeworlds or certain plot encounters.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 01:49:48 PM by Megas »
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FinetalPies

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Re: Battle Stations scale with Battle Size
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2020, 03:37:52 PM »

    Well, as it is, if you're having a tough (ie: fair) fight after you deploy your full fleet capacity. You can currently open the options menu to raise that capacity, and make the fight easier. It does feel a bit weird to do that and it raises questions on which fleet size the game is going to be balanced around. (Like unit size impacting balance in the Total War games)

    I still currently like the feeling of swarming a lone station after luring its defending fleets away, though the reserve fleets idea does have merit and would make sense for the core worlds. Honestly I just think OP's initial idea of giving the station a bit more oomph on larger battle sizes makes sense, don't player who enable larger battles want...larger battles?
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Megas

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Re: Battle Stations scale with Battle Size
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2020, 03:48:29 PM »

Honestly I just think OP's initial idea of giving the station a bit more oomph on larger battle sizes makes sense, don't player who enable larger battles want...larger battles?
I like high map size so I can deploy my fleet, not a tag-team duo and play a mangled fighting game with space ships instead of Ryu and Ken.  I like to deploy all because there is no kill like overkill.  I also like to finish fights in one round, not multiple rounds because there is not enough PPT to endure too many waves of ships.

If my goal is not for combat's sake (e.g., I want to steal a blueprint or kill a planet), the best fight is the one won without firing a shot, or if shots must be fired, then one where the attacker has such an overwhelming advantage that "FLAWLESS VICTORY! FATALITY!" is assured.
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