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Author Topic: Max Crew affects Peak Performance Times  (Read 1582 times)

IronBorn

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Max Crew affects Peak Performance Times
« on: April 05, 2020, 06:12:52 PM »

Crew above the minimum required should boost Peak Performance Time (PPT) for ships. More crew should also = more supplies per month. The extra crew bonus would only apply 50% to civilian ships.

A general idea of how it would affect ships:
Frigates and Destroyers = up to 100% PPT for full crew.
Cruisers and Capitals = up to 50% PPT for full crews.

Extra Supplies per Month by Class:
Frigates = up to 10%
Destroyers = up to 15%
Cruisers = up to 20%
Capitals = up to 25%

The Extra Crew hull mod could allow for an additional PPT increase of 5% to 10%.

Extra crew should also boost CR recovery rates after battle.

Would give more reason to bring more crew (even though I already bring max), and help extend the performance of frigates and destroyers for end game.
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AxleMC131

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Re: Max Crew affects Peak Performance Times
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2020, 09:17:40 PM »

More crew should also = more supplies per month.

Just a side note: Don't forget that you pay your crew a wage, so technically the more crew you have the more you're paying already. It's just in credits rather than supplies. We definitely don't need another "penalty" to having ample crew.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: Max Crew affects Peak Performance Times
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2020, 09:46:47 PM »

Besides, there are already reason to have more crew. FIGHTERS.
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SCC

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Re: Max Crew affects Peak Performance Times
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2020, 02:54:57 AM »

Considering that crew-heavy ships are already giant cash sinkholes, it would only get worse with these changes.

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IronBorn

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Re: Max Crew affects Peak Performance Times
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2020, 08:25:25 AM »

More crew should also = more supplies per month.

Just a side note: Don't forget that you pay your crew a wage, so technically the more crew you have the more you're paying already. It's just in credits rather than supplies. We definitely don't need another "penalty" to having ample crew.

It's not a penalty. You gain PPT and CR recovery time. You also don't need to carry additional crew if you dont want. For fleets that want additional crew, but not the extra costs, crew transports could be used. So ships, whose main purpose is passanger ferries, wouldn't have a supply increase.

Considering that crew-heavy ships are already giant cash sinkholes, it would only get worse with these changes.

Cruisers and capitals are already way too cheap to field and capitals really should only be affordable to a player once they have colonies to support them. Also, no additional costs if you run with a bare minimum crew compliment.

Tying PPT and CR Recovery to additional crew adds some more depth to the game. It increases the cost effectiveness of smaller ships and gives players more options. You can choose to bring a max crewed fleet on exploration missions, with the PPT boost allowing you needing fewer combat ships as smaller ships will last longer in extended engagements. Or bring a lighter crewed fleet to save on supply costs. A max crewed fleet would also be extremely valuable on combat missions, extending your fleet's PPT.
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AxleMC131

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Re: Max Crew affects Peak Performance Times
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2020, 05:23:15 PM »

It's not a penalty. You gain PPT and CR recovery time. You also don't need to carry additional crew if you dont want. For fleets that want additional crew, but not the extra costs, crew transports could be used. So ships, whose main purpose is passanger ferries, wouldn't have a supply increase.

Well it's a penalty or bonus depending on whether you want more PPT/CR, or cheaper repairs. I'm worried those two things will counter each other out fairly handily, and make the whole system moot, OR one will be preferential to the other at which point it's just a min-maxing thing which not everyone enjoys.

Also I don't know how crew are split across ships in your fleet, but I'm pretty sure it's fairly low-brow. I don't know if the method of "bring dedicated crew transports" would work as well as you think, but I could be wrong.


Considering that crew-heavy ships are already giant cash sinkholes, it would only get worse with these changes.

Cruisers and capitals are already way too cheap to field and capitals really should only be affordable to a player once they have colonies to support them...

That's definitely subjective, but I'm a really slow player, and I think that's over the top for limiting the player's progression. Also not everyone plays with colonies. Cruisers and capitals being too cheap is a more foundational balance issue, not something that should be solved with a concept like this (and probably not by making frigates and destroyers better). Also I don't think cruisers and caps are too cheap for what they do, but hey, what do I know? I'm just a guy who enjoys wrecking stuff in a player-controlled destroyer.


... Also, no additional costs if you run with a bare minimum crew compliment.

... I'm not convinced. There is a genuine penalty for having below minimum crew. You get in one fight, you lose even a handful of crew, and now you have less total CR. The min-maxers might adore this, but again not everyone plays that way. I'm not a min-maxer, and I'm certainly iffy about it.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Max Crew affects Peak Performance Times
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2020, 05:47:59 PM »

TBH, this seems like a lot of work and micro management when you could just give frigates and destroyers appropriate PPT boosts and cruisers and capitals appropriate upkeep nerfs as necessary. TBH, I don't think cruisers and capitals need an upkeep nerf. Capitals already cost enough that it's not worth lugging them around unless you are targeting specific fights or have a huge amount of money to burn IMO.
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DatonKallandor

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Re: Max Crew affects Peak Performance Times
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2020, 09:08:41 AM »

PPT and CR is already well balanced and doesn't need a change. And "pay more supplies for more stats" is super boring design.
Extra crew already is extremely useful, and has an easily understood, very simple and obvious cost.
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Megas

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Re: Max Crew affects Peak Performance Times
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2020, 10:22:46 AM »

PPT and CR is already well balanced and doesn't need a change.
It was better balanced when fights were shorter, enemy fleets were not as big, enemy ships were less cowardly, and offensive skills were stronger (and after ballistics got unlimited ammo).  That is, from late 0.6.5 to 0.7.2.  CR has been unchanged for years, but enemy fleets' power and size crept up.

Now, fights are big and PPT is short enough that multi-round combat happens unless player is overpowered enough and maybe map size big enough.

If Alex did not already change fleet generation for next release, there would either be need for more PPT across the board or fights made shorter.  Even so, it looks like they are at least as big as Hegemony System Defense Fleets, with three (maybe more) capitals.

As for OP, I do not want to dedicate all of my personnel to crew just for fighting, especially if player needs to bring more marines to raid and steal blueprints (or just to explore unknown objects).  Sometimes, I bring extra crew to build a colony or two on a whim.

Player does not need to be punished for hauling capitals when NPC fleets will routinely bring multiple capitals, even if not as many as now.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 10:26:04 AM by Megas »
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FinetalPies

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Re: Max Crew affects Peak Performance Times
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2020, 02:50:43 PM »

    I mean, it sounds more like this could be a role for a hull mod than a sweeping change. "Increase Peak Performance Time but also increase Crew requirements". (If that's not even already a thing?) It'd cost fewer points than say, Hardened Subsystems, which increases that sort of stuff without penalty.

    Cause I like to bring extra crew to replace losses, I don't want that to suddenly eat into my supplies. Also PPT is more of a problem for some of my ships than others, so would I be able to selectively choose which ones are bringing extra combat crew? Would I want to bring them back down to Skeleton Crew levels during long voyages, then switch a few days before engaging an orbital station? On each individual ship in my fleet? My point is it all just sounds like way too much micromanagement, I can already spend a solid hour just tweaking my fleet composition and loadouts.

    I don't have any particular complaints aboot PPT and CR the way they are now (though just today I was piloting a phase frigate when it exploded due to a malfunction, oops. My bad for not paying better attention.)
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Goumindong

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Re: Max Crew affects Peak Performance Times
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2020, 04:10:23 PM »

The bonus you get for having extra crew is having spare when they die
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Morbo513

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Re: Max Crew affects Peak Performance Times
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2020, 05:57:21 AM »

It stands to reason that crewmen who become exhausted, incapacitated or are otherwise operating at diminished capacity through the course of battles could be refreshed with those "spare" crew. Translated into game terms, lengthened PPT and/or reduced CR degradation. In reality I imagine the benefits of excess crew would be even greater - Those crew who have been replaced then have an opportunity to rest, eat, be treated and potentially take over for those they were replaced by in the first place.
Of course CR/PPT is also a simulation of the condition of the ships' systems, so no amount of crew would be able to offset it completely but I digress. I'm all for more trade-offs for the player to decide on - PPT/CR vs Logistics vs Minimum crew requirements.
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