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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.8.c - Colony content expansion  (Read 127819 times)

thesonofdarwin

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So this is not on your end, but on mine - I can't revert the change, sadly, so the only thing that you could do was to remove all salvage yards via console commands, save, update, and add them again. (removeIndustry deconomics_ScrapYard).

Is there any way to do this to all sectors/markets? The command appears to be on a market-by-market basis and my colony markets no longer have a SalvageYard after I removed the one that was causing my problems. But upgrading from 1.2 to 1.3.b is a no-go. There must be one somewhere? Do factions build these industries?
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Kh0rnet

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I've had this happen to me (screenshot) when switching a Variable Assembler from a drugs VPC to a luxury goods VPC.
Functionally it doesn't seem to break anything - it still generates luxury goods in the storage, just the "null" in the monthly notification is a bit odd.

EDIT: I've noticed another bug today: the Variable Assemblers and similar industries state in their description that they deposit "some of the local commodity in the local colony storage at the end of each month" - that is simply not true since the ALL additional goods from EVERY planet are automatically deposited in your faction's currently set 'production gathering point' instead of the 'local storage.' On one hand this is convenient since you don't have to fly around your planets to pick up everything, on the other, it makes sense if every surplus of VPC production was gathered locally.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 08:26:07 AM by Kh0rnet »
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SirHartley

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So this is not on your end, but on mine - I can't revert the change, sadly, so the only thing that you could do was to remove all salvage yards via console commands, save, update, and add them again. (removeIndustry deconomics_ScrapYard).

Is there any way to do this to all sectors/markets? The command appears to be on a market-by-market basis and my colony markets no longer have a SalvageYard after I removed the one that was causing my problems. But upgrading from 1.2 to 1.3.b is a no-go. There must be one somewhere? Do factions build these industries?

Nope, factions don't build these at the moment, and if removing all salvage yards and waiting for a bit doesn't fix it, I can't really do anything. If you don't have the old verison anymore you can download it again from my repo - sorry!

I've had this happen to me (screenshot) when switching a Variable Assembler from a drugs VPC to a luxury goods VPC.
Functionally it doesn't seem to break anything - it still generates luxury goods in the storage, just the "null" in the monthly notification is a bit odd.

EDIT: I've noticed another bug today: the Variable Assemblers and similar industries state in their description that they deposit "some of the local commodity in the local colony storage at the end of each month" - that is simply not true since the ALL additional goods from EVERY planet are automatically deposited in your faction's currently set 'production gathering point' instead of the 'local storage.' On one hand this is convenient since you don't have to fly around your planets to pick up everything, on the other, it makes sense if every surplus of VPC production was gathered locally.

First part is known and has been fixed for the next release. Second part is just me forgetting to update descriptions, which happens - thanks for pointing it out.
The Variable industry output used to gather locally, but I was asked to change this multiple times - so I did, cause ultimately vanilla does it as well with ship hulls and it is more convenient.
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Kh0rnet

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First part is known and has been fixed for the next release. Second part is just me forgetting to update descriptions, which happens - thanks for pointing it out.
The Variable industry output used to gather locally, but I was asked to change this multiple times - so I did, cause ultimately vanilla does it as well with ship hulls and it is more convenient.

Good to know, thanks for the very cool mod.
Ideally the best solution would be to allow the player to choose where the goods are stored, but I've no idea how hard would that be to implement.

Do you have any plans/ideas to add more industries, by the way?
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thesonofdarwin

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Nope, factions don't build these at the moment, and if removing all salvage yards and waiting for a bit doesn't fix it, I can't really do anything. If you don't have the old verison anymore you can download it again from my repo - sorry!

I noticed that deconomics_scrapYard is mentioned a few places in my Campaign save file. I reinstalled the prior version and it's working, so I'll just carry on with the version I have until I start a new campaign. Thanks for trying to help troubleshoot!
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Kh0rnet

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Here's another thing that bothered me about the Variable Assembler again: perhaps I don't get something or maybe it is a bug.
The production itself, if I understand correctly, is intended  to work as a normal industry; that is, it consumes locally produced/imported resources depending on demand, and adds refined resources to the colony's overall production. The extra resources every month dropped in your storage are a bonus.

Then why do the produced goods/commodities not stack with the ones produced by standard industries, as shown here for the fuel and supply VPC with a fuel production industry present: https://imgur.com/a/jAThdp1 - the value doesn't exceed 7 fuel units exported.

I have tested this with the domestic/luxury goods VPC - the production/exports don't grow when their relative standard industries are present.

Question one: is this an intended feature for balance reasons? And if not, then...
Question two: is this because of the local production of the demanded resource not being enough to support the VA? And if so, why don't the demanded resources get added to the colony's imports?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 07:27:10 PM by Kh0rnet »
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SirHartley

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Good to know, thanks for the very cool mod.
Ideally the best solution would be to allow the player to choose where the goods are stored, but I've no idea how hard would that be to implement.

Do you have any plans/ideas to add more industries, by the way?

I could make such an interface - but does it really have any advantage? The player will set the delivery point to the production delivery point in about 99% of cases - so there is not much gained except making the system more complicated.
Adding more industries? - Yes, definitely. I'm not spoiling which ones, though ;)

Here's another thing that bothered me about the Variable Assembler again: perhaps I don't get something or maybe it is a bug.
The production itself, if I understand correctly, is intended  to work as a normal industry; that is, it consumes locally produced/imported resources depending on demand, and adds refined resources to the colony's overall production. The extra resources every month dropped in your storage are a bonus.

Then why do the produced goods/commodities not stack with the ones produced by standard industries, as shown here for the fuel and supply VPC with a fuel production industry present: https://imgur.com/a/jAThdp1 - the value doesn't exceed 7 fuel units exported.

I have tested this with the domestic/luxury goods VPC - the production/exports don't grow when their relative standard industries are present.

Question one: is this an intended feature for balance reasons? And if not, then...
Question two: is this because of the local production of the demanded resource not being enough to support the VA? And if so, why don't the demanded resources get added to the colony's imports?


Starsector economy is logistic. That means this:


Every resource unit your colony displays is 10x the amount of the prior unit. This is why Gilead, at a base food output of 8 units, can supply the entire sector with food - it could, in theory, supply up to 10 planets that need 7 units of food each (if the engine cared about that, which it doesn't.)
Imagine if I stacked the resource units: The assembler produces 4 units (ten thousand items), the industry, 6 (one million items), you combine them and suddenly you have an output of ten billion items, or 10 units?

The units you see in the industry screen is not a true representation of the produced item amounts. It is a heavy abstraction, called economy units. Economy units produced by industries are completely detached from commodities that the player trades with - there is a definition how many items make up an economy unit, but the economy system does not care about it (that is not entirely true, but explaining it is confusing.)

So - what the Variable industries deposit in the storage has absolutely nothing to do with the actual economic output. It is a number I calculated by taking upkeep vs. commodity cost and theoretical profit, running upkeep to output comparison with a logarithmic increase over market size, and balancing it manually a bit.

I hope that answered both questions.

By the way, this is also why Salvage Yards are so useful - they export their output alongside Heavy industry, which no other industry does because it would just be integrated in whatever industry delivers more units.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 12:35:31 PM by SirHartley »
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Kh0rnet

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Starsector economy is logistic. That means this:


Every resource unit your colony displays is 10x the amount of the prior unit. This is why Gilead, at a base food output of 8 units, can supply the entire sector with food - it could, in theory, supply up to 10 planets that need 7 units of food each (if the engine cared about that, which it doesn't.)
Imagine if I stacked the resource units: The assembler produces 4 units (ten thousand items), the industry, 6 (one million items), you combine them and suddenly you have an output of ten billion items, or 10 units?

The units you see in the industry screen is not a true representation of the produced item amounts. It is a heavy abstraction, called economy units. Economy units produced by industries are completely detached from commodities that the player trades with - there is a definition how many items make up an economy unit, but the economy system does not care about it (that is not entirely true, but explaining it is confusing.)

So - what the Variable industries deposit in the storage has absolutely nothing to do with the actual economic output. It is a number I calculated by taking upkeep vs. commodity cost and theoretical profit, running upkeep to output comparison with a logarithmic increase over market size, and balancing it manually a bit.

I hope that answered both questions.

By the way, this is also why Salvage Yards are so useful - they export their output alongside Heavy industry, which no other industry does because it would just be integrated in whatever industry delivers more units.

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. This is apparently big-brain stuff, but I think I get it  ;D

Then ultimately there is no reason to use a Variable Assembler to produce a resource you already have a better industry for, EXCEPT for the monthly delivery of the commodity for your personal use.
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SirHartley

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You still get income/market share for whatever the Assembler produces, but it doesn't affect the total export amounts. Building it next to an industry with the same output can be useful if you need more market presence (=money earned by that second industry).
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Fandino

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Is the fleet size bonus wrong?
Cadia has the largest fleet size but the military relay says that the largest fleet is from Lavinia.

https://imgur.com/gallery/Eto7HJb
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SirHartley

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And once again - another structure.
This time, it's more political. Get Ambassadors, try not to get them dead, and participate in the political scene of the Persean sector.
It's a rather complicated system, so let me know when if it crashes.

Change Log

1.4.a
  • Variable Industries
  • Fixed Luxury good deposition notice
  • Salvage Yards
  • Fixed a crash related to stations
  • Embassy
  • Added - Monthly reputation increase with a changeable faction, with a 50% increased penalty on negative relation change.
  • Added - get your own Ambassador at a market near you, today!
  • Added - compatible with most modded factions, see list in the description.
[close]

Is the fleet size bonus wrong?
Cadia has the largest fleet size but the military relay says that the largest fleet is from Lavinia.

https://imgur.com/gallery/Eto7HJb

This is working as intended. The fleet size bonus is taken from the largest flat bonus of the colony, not the total size.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2020, 09:26:06 AM by SirHartley »
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CrimsonPhalanx

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Ohh the new update sounds interesting.

I actually had some ideas I wanted to suggest, and it seems like the embassy makes it more viable with that 50% relationship penalty,

A luddic cathedral or church that gives negative luddic path interest, depending on relationship with the luddic church, and will give high amounts of luddic path interest if the relation with the church drops past an amount (maybe below friendly, or below 0)
(basically have the luddic path turn a blind eye to a few things since the church sings praises about the colony, but when relationship is low, they'll see it as a holy site that needs liberation, or just plain annoyed at the hypocrisy)


Maybe a hegemony "representative" building(basically a corrupt embassy or something), where the upkeep is based on how many AI cores are running in the colony, basically getting the reps to report that there are no AI cores, and preventing the AI inspection on the planet it is built in. Maybe have the upkeep get a discount if the hegemony likes you, and they'll straight up rat you off to the Hege about the AI cores and send if the relation dips enough.
(although this might be kinda redundant since you can bribe off the actual inspections, unless the upkeep is more of a luxury good/drugs demand, or a stability hit while it produces "confiscated" goods and slight income)


Finally this is more of a personal thing, and having a building dedicated to it might be a bit overkill (maybe having a device like the VPCs you need to find to plug into the military arrays?) But something that'll auto tell you the location of the base for pirate and luddic activity for the system no matter where the player is would be pretty neat, no more flying 15 light years home to find out the pirate base was 2 light years away from where you started.
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SirHartley

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Ohh the new update sounds interesting.

I actually had some ideas I wanted to suggest, and it seems like the embassy makes it more viable with that 50% relationship penalty,

A luddic cathedral or church that gives negative luddic path interest, depending on relationship with the luddic church, and will give high amounts of luddic path interest if the relation with the church drops past an amount (maybe below friendly, or below 0)
(basically have the luddic path turn a blind eye to a few things since the church sings praises about the colony, but when relationship is low, they'll see it as a holy site that needs liberation, or just plain annoyed at the hypocrisy)

Path/Pirates other "bad" factions will get their own specialised building sometime in the future, but I do not want to make it easier to gain relations with them.
The idea of having a structure with effects depending on faction reputation is worth consideration though.

Maybe a hegemony "representative" building(basically a corrupt embassy or something), where the upkeep is based on how many AI cores are running in the colony, basically getting the reps to report that there are no AI cores, and preventing the AI inspection on the planet it is built in. Maybe have the upkeep get a discount if the hegemony likes you, and they'll straight up rat you off to the Hege about the AI cores and send if the relation dips enough.
(although this might be kinda redundant since you can bribe off the actual inspections, unless the upkeep is more of a luxury good/drugs demand, or a stability hit while it produces "confiscated" goods and slight income)

That sounds like AI core inspection with extra steps?

Finally this is more of a personal thing, and having a building dedicated to it might be a bit overkill (maybe having a device like the VPCs you need to find to plug into the military arrays?) But something that'll auto tell you the location of the base for pirate and luddic activity for the system no matter where the player is would be pretty neat, no more flying 15 light years home to find out the pirate base was 2 light years away from where you started.

Exists already, the central intelligence agency from SCY does that.
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Nerzhull_AI

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Ayy, it's finally here. Love your mod, keep up good work.
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NephilimNexus

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Request: AI Core consumption for supercomputer as a "true/false" toggle in the config, so as to let users decide if they want it that way or not.
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