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Author Topic: EMP effective against Phase-cloaked ships  (Read 350 times)

Morbo513

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EMP effective against Phase-cloaked ships
« on: February 17, 2020, 06:48:13 AM »

Simple suggestion to change up the combat dynamics of phase-ships.
The "issue" (matter of opinion) it'd solve how ruthless they are - The window in which opposing ships have to engage them (while at PPT and not in too deep) before they slip away is very short - they evade a hell of a lot of all return-fire, and make a joke out of range-management, making them extremely effective kiters. I'd like to be able to build ships with loadouts to effectively counter them - and for there to be more threats for players to account for when using them - and figured EMP would be an effective countermeasure that's already in the game.

There's a couple of ways this could work.
In both cases, the EMP projectile doesn't "hit", but passes through the ship while it's phase-cloaked, doing no physical damage.

#1 is projectiles/beams deal diminished EMP damage across all the parts of the ship they intersect - Electromagnetic buggery is transphasic - ships equipped with EMP weapons will have more success in catching phase-ships. Would make Automated Repair Unit, Resistant Flux Conduits more valuable on phase ships

#2 is EMP fire builds flux on the phase-ship while it's cloaked (Compensating for EM interference in their phase thingy), basically the same relationship between EMP vs. phase-cloak as kinetics vs. shields, enabling EMP-equipped ships to more easily flush them out or keep them at-bay.

These dynamics could be built into dedicated weapons of their own and/or combined within one, alternatively or in addition to imbuing EMP weapons with these effects vs. Phase-cloaked ships.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 06:57:55 AM by Morbo513 »
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Plantissue

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Re: EMP effective against Phase-cloaked ships
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2020, 08:59:48 AM »

Looking from a background point of view, why would EMP damage be able to affect phased ships? There's lots of different styles for EMP weapons in the game, but they all have the same physical qualifier that they must hit the hull of the ship to pass the EMP effect. How would it make sense that the EMP component can affect the phase ship when the projectile or beam does not hit the ship in the first place? Why couldn't they for instance completely bypass shields as well?

From a gameplay point of view, if you group your ships near each other you can generally ward away phase ships no matter what weaponry you have. You don't even need beams or fighters; those are only needed to quickly destroy them.
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bobucles

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Re: EMP effective against Phase-cloaked ships
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2020, 10:23:56 AM »

Phase ships already have a respectable list of weaknesses. They don't do well against beams, which deal constant pressure and can't be blocked. They're automatically weak against HE damage and struggle against persistent missiles like Pilums. The AI generally fumbles around with phase ships and can't take good advantage of their strengths, and the random weapon generation struggles to pick the rare few weapons that are very strong for phase ships. On the plus side, phase ships do tend to be over spec'd and exploitable under player control.
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Cyber Von Cyberus

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Re: EMP effective against Phase-cloaked ships
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2020, 10:25:06 AM »

I'm not too sure about this, the Doom is the only truly threatening phase ship in AI hands, most others tend to just dance atound you and never really engage unless you are overloaded. Nerfing them seems unnecessary to me.
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shoi

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Re: EMP effective against Phase-cloaked ships
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2020, 01:36:33 PM »

Biggest thing is it doesn't jive with lore. The ships are in an entirely different dimension , i dont think would be normal for most weapon to have transdimensional attack capability
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 01:38:59 PM by shoi »
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SCC

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Re: EMP effective against Phase-cloaked ships
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2020, 02:56:08 AM »

Ballistic weapons don't have to necessarily shoot KEP projectiles. They can be some devices, like explosives. Like shield generators. Or something more complicated, something that can screw around with phase ships.
It would be cool to have a weapon that has one normal role, but if it "hits" a phasing target, it deals a bunch of EMP to it. It's not lasting damage, so phase ships aren't punished too hard for getting "hit".

TaLaR

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Re: EMP effective against Phase-cloaked ships
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2020, 03:09:13 AM »

It's actually quite easy for a phase ship to dodge projectiles due to 3x/4x time dilation. There is simply no need to with current mechanics.
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Morbo513

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Re: EMP effective against Phase-cloaked ships
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2020, 09:48:09 AM »

Biggest thing is it doesn't jive with lore. The ships are in an entirely different dimension , i dont think would be normal for most weapon to have transdimensional attack capability
I mean, Phase Lances exist - they ostensibly fire a trans-dimensional beam - and ships' sensors can still detect phase-cloaked ships within combat ranges. Whether EMP weapons "in general" would plausibly have that ability per the lore I couldn't say, but in gameplay terms I think the concept would better apply to dedicated, special-purpose weapons; Ones that trade some usefulness, damage output etc. against regular targets, for the ability to offset the threat/ease of cloaked ships.
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TaLaR

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Re: EMP effective against Phase-cloaked ships
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2020, 10:15:54 AM »

Phased Afflictor could dodge most of TL/PL burst duration as well - most beams have very low tracking while firing.

Enemy phase ships are not enough of a threat to reduce performance against conventional targets. Player piloted phase ship would find them only a minor inconvenience unless they are ridiculously overpowered (and you could simply switch to non-phase player ship for particular battle).

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Morbo513

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Re: EMP effective against Phase-cloaked ships
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2020, 10:40:59 AM »

Phased Afflictor could dodge most of TL/PL burst duration as well - most beams have very low tracking while firing.

Enemy phase ships are not enough of a threat to reduce performance against conventional targets. Player piloted phase ship would find them only a minor inconvenience unless they are ridiculously overpowered (and you could simply switch to non-phase player ship for particular battle).
For that reason, such weapons would work well for phase-hunting frigates where turn-rate is generally offset by maneuverability - most phase-ships are able to time their cloaks even when near maxed-out on flux, to completely avoid being hit by it currently. Giving them the ability to perhaps not damage, but disrupt ships that are phase-cloaked would make them all the more attractive. Lore handwave: Not all the particles fired by the PL are passing through the same dimension as the cloaked ship.
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