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[Erick Doe]

3000*4 hp fighters vs similar but 300 hp for vanilla is a bit overkill.

They have 1750 hp, not 3000. That's a big difference. That's a total of 7000 in a wing, not 12000. The Persephones also have weaknesses which have already been discussed. Back then I also said that I may tone down the ships if they prove too unbalanced. It should be noted that they are not nearly as strong as a frigate, as they only have 1750 hp and far less armour.

There is no balance, some factions are more powerfull then others

There's balance. Some factions have their own strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps you're still to discover them.

aqvidulians - (sonic guns for space usage and water lasers...) completely idiotic ship size to durability ratio, 3000 * 4 figher wings with size of wasp that extremely hard to hit by hand and capitals with burndrive and 40 mounts, not really fun both to play with and to farm em.
with proper strategy completely unkillable.

Sonic guns for space usage and water lasers? What about them? It is no more far-fetched than mass drivers in space. Or plasma guns and laser beams. The Sonic Turrets create a powerful fibration within a cilinder called a drumchamber. This is done in an area of the ship that has gravity and molecules to manipulate. When the fibration is powerful enough, it releases a destructive pulse that continues outward into space. Much like a mass driver may ignite an explosion that generates enough energy to send out a solid object into space.
The Reflector Turret uses a series of tiny lenses that contain water, called aquapools. Light is being shot through the lenses, through which the beam picks up power untill it is capable of cutting through solid objects.

Antediluvian ships have many mounts, but only low grade weapons. The burndrive is part of Antediluvian tactics and survival, since their weapons are short range and they do not have shields.

neutrino - 0.16 shields and 2-3 times more HP\armor then same class vanilla ships, kings of autoresolve, never saw neutrino fleet losing battle. Still can lose to figher swarms.

More powerful shields may make Neutrino ships too powerful. They already seem to have high hull and armour ratings. I agree that they seem to always win autoresolve situations. That might have to be looked at.

blacks, thule - basically all ships have firepower of next tier, eg frigate have firepower of destroyer, in other terms stay on same level with vanilla.

They have powerful weapons, but terrible speed and other weaknesses. They seem balanced enough. As long as their fleetpoints and cost reflect their power, it doesn't matter what classification (frigate, destroyer, etc.) they have.

[mostmodest]

I just have to say, I love this mod.
Not only does it save me time choosing other mods, but it places them into groups and adds other features. I think that while the fleets may not appear balanced at first, after a while,it is inherently apparent that each faction has weaknesses (i.e. Antediluvians have no shields) and while it takes time to adjust to the change and the fast pace, it isn't really that complicated.

[RawCode]

Top persefone have 2250 + 195 armor in overlaying sections size of WASP and 170 speed and 2 small mounts with 1500 !!!!!!(!!!!!1111) DPS there is 4 in wing!!!11111

Are you mad?, single figher wing with 6000 DPS (its more then onslaught) 170 speed and total 12k HP with free regeneration on any carrier.
Ever if we take in account 75% drop versus armor, it still 1500 DPS, it will bypass armor of any ship in 2 seconds.

This is level of cruiser in terms of combat effectiveness, and this is figher wing, it will regenerate for free as long as single fighter is still alive.
THIS IS OVERKILL and you completely accurate, this is not level of average frigate.

Some factions have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Your ships have outstanding perfomance compared to vanilla, burndrive allow to come close, hurge amount of DPS allow to deal with enemy.
Only valid strategy is kiting around, there is no chance in close combat and no chance to run away on same class ship.
Frigate kiting confirmed as "cheating" by devs and deal with next version.
Soo your ships can be killed only by "cheating".
No shield can be exploited only by long ranged weapons, there is nothing long ranged to tritachion faction.


You lore is fine, but read this http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief it explain everything.

I can explain anything in current starfarer setting, lasers, plasma, space zombies, free flying around, but space sonic guns and infinite space hydro abrasive cutting is just unprobable and harm sence of reality.

In case of player controlled ships, i can mount good weapons in every slot and steamroll ever neutrino with stunning DPS.
Soo aqs not fun to farm (too hard) and not fun to play with (too easy).

Uber shields shoud have major drawback, like hurge maintain cost, ever 0.01 shields will work fine, if ship able to hold this shield only for few seconds. This will allow skilled player to adsorb insane amounts of damage, but wont allow neutriono to hold constant fire.
Flux venting also shoud be much much slower.

Current neutrion too slow to farm (keep special angle to hull to bypass shield or have many ships) and to easy to play by.


Starfarer is SP game, it shoud provide wide range of options for player to exploit, in case of all rounded ships with uber weapons and burn(ark)(aldae)(hadron teleporter)drive, 0.5 or better 360 shield there is completely no options to exploit.

If you have more damage then enemy ship shields you can kill it, othervice you wont low its shield.
In case of unshielded ships, you cant safe aproach, since they drop your shield before you come into your damage range, or after some time burndrive into you and pwn you.

[eneaunu]

I have played it , and it`s balanced as it can get , my only thought was maybe at lvl 30 , or 35 , you could buy from the other stations , since at that level you pretty much control the system .

[Sandremo]

I can explain anything in current starfarer setting, lasers, plasma, space zombies, free flying around, but space sonic guns and infinite space hydro abrasive cutting is just unprobable and harm sence of reality.

Since when are games supposed to be realistic? The mod is good! It has interesting weapons and ships diffirent from the vanilla ships which makes it fun to play with. This is just my but in my personal opinion if it's fun it shouldnt matter if you throw the sense of realism out of window.

It's a game mate. A game. It doesnt matter.

-Sandemo

PS. If you find this post offensive then i apologize.

[SainnQ]

3000*4 hp fighters vs similar but 300 hp for vanilla is a bit overkill.

They have 1750 hp, not 3000. That's a big difference. That's a total of 7000 in a wing, not 12000. The Persephones also have weaknesses which have already been discussed. Back then I also said that I may tone down the ships if they prove too unbalanced. It should be noted that they are not nearly as strong as a frigate, as they only have 1750 hp and far less armour.

There is no balance, some factions are more powerfull then others

There's balance. Some factions have their own strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps you're still to discover them.

aqvidulians - (sonic guns for space usage and water lasers...) completely idiotic ship size to durability ratio, 3000 * 4 figher wings with size of wasp that extremely hard to hit by hand and capitals with burndrive and 40 mounts, not really fun both to play with and to farm em.
with proper strategy completely unkillable.

Sonic guns for space usage and water lasers? What about them? It is no more far-fetched than mass drivers in space. Or plasma guns and laser beams. The Sonic Turrets create a powerful fibration within a cilinder called a drumchamber. This is done in an area of the ship that has gravity and molecules to manipulate. When the fibration is powerful enough, it releases a destructive pulse that continues outward into space. Much like a mass driver may ignite an explosion that generates enough energy to send out a solid object into space.
The Reflector Turret uses a series of tiny lenses that contain water, called aquapools. Light is being shot through the lenses, through which the beam picks up power untill it is capable of cutting through solid objects.

Antediluvian ships have many mounts, but only low grade weapons. The burndrive is part of Antediluvian tactics and survival, since their weapons are short range and they do not have shields.

neutrino - 0.16 shields and 2-3 times more HP\armor then same class vanilla ships, kings of autoresolve, never saw neutrino fleet losing battle. Still can lose to figher swarms.

More powerful shields may make Neutrino ships too powerful. They already seem to have high hull and armour ratings. I agree that they seem to always win autoresolve situations. That might have to be looked at.

blacks, thule - basically all ships have firepower of next tier, eg frigate have firepower of destroyer, in other terms stay on same level with vanilla.

They have powerful weapons, but terrible speed and other weaknesses. They seem balanced enough. As long as their fleetpoints and cost reflect their power, it doesn't matter what classification (frigate, destroyer, etc.) they have.

I'm just going to drop my little tid bit in.

The placement of planets and stations should be looked at, early in the game some factons have absurd levels of dominance, and even into late game resupply fleets have a nigh impossible team getting to their destination, EXCEPT for the factions whom have planets on the outer reaches of the map.

Also, your logic behind the Antediluvian weaponry isn't quite on point. Water presents no benefit to laser weaponry, infact in the way you've explained it it seems to make them completely useless.

Also, Sound requires a medium to travel, there is no medium in space for sound to travel through so sonic weaponry makes no sense whatsoever.

Instead of trying to explain it you should probably just say. It's magical! I ain't gotta explain ***!  

A Persephone fleet with maybe two carriers on the fridges of a battle space seem to be capable of infinite regeneration so long as one fighter makes it away, which would be the case because currently you require a dedicated barrage of multiple medium class weapons to kill them. Despite their supposed low armor.

[SainnQ]

I can explain anything in current starfarer setting, lasers, plasma, space zombies, free flying around, but space sonic guns and infinite space hydro abrasive cutting is just unprobable and harm sence of reality.

Since when are games supposed to be realistic? The mod is good! It has interesting weapons and ships diffirent from the vanilla ships which makes it fun to play with. This is just my but in my personal opinion if it's fun it shouldnt matter if you throw the sense of realism out of window.

It's a game mate. A game. It doesnt matter.

-Sandemo

PS. If you find this post offensive then i apologize.

When they're fantasy, or mystical games that's fine.

But the problem is Science Fiction is based upon science fact sprinkled with some stretched truths.
So to go too far beyond what most people can logically break down starts ruining the enjoyment of the genre.

[Sandremo]

I can explain anything in current starfarer setting, lasers, plasma, space zombies, free flying around, but space sonic guns and infinite space hydro abrasive cutting is just unprobable and harm sence of reality.

Since when are games supposed to be realistic? The mod is good! It has interesting weapons and ships diffirent from the vanilla ships which makes it fun to play with. This is just my but in my personal opinion if it's fun it shouldnt matter if you throw the sense of realism out of window.

It's a game mate. A game. It doesnt matter.

-Sandemo

PS. If you find this post offensive then i apologize.

When they're fantasy, or mystical games that's fine.

But the problem is Science Fiction is based upon science fact sprinkled with some stretched truths.
So to go too far beyond what most people can logically break down starts ruining the enjoyment of the genre.

I have yet to see anybody fire any weapons in space... And like you said sound needs a medium to travel in space. If you wanna go down that road how about we remove all the sounds from starsector then? Since it's not possible to have any kind of sound in space why are we hearing guns shooting and the ships exploding? If we can hear those why cant we have sonic weapons then? :O

Edit: Even if the crew can hear their own ship blowing up from the inside what about the other ships?

[sdmike1]

Also, Sound requires a medium to travel, there is no medium in space for sound to travel through so sonic weaponry makes no sense whatsoever.

They create ripples in the fabric of space time, the only reason that they are called sonic is because on their home world they used a similar design to blast rocks underwater

Also IDK what all of the fuss is about, kill the carrier and you are fine, also the only carriers that they have are on the cap ship and cruiser level so ya...

just saying, no offence intended

[SainnQ]

Also, Sound requires a medium to travel, there is no medium in space for sound to travel through so sonic weaponry makes no sense whatsoever.

They create ripples in the fabric of space time, the only reason that they are called sonic is because on their home world they used a similar design to blast rocks underwater

Also IDK what all of the fuss is about, kill the carrier and you are fine, also the only carriers that they have are on the cap ship and cruiser level so ya...

just saying, no offence intended

Ok see that explains it. They're warp weapons!

The Antediluvian persephone ships pretty much lock you down at a certain density, I'd say more then 4-5 squads? And the ones I encounter usually have more then that maybe 2-3 more squads. They blow out your engine swarm all over you now you can't adequately deal with them because you're at your Flux cap, and even if you vent it all they're constantly pummeling your engine block. They function very similar to The Doctor's fleet. They just get all over your ass like fire ants lol.

[Erick Doe]

I normally do not respond to such ludicrous and offensive posts (mind you, not all were). However, I shall this time, to settle any arguement once and for all.

I just have to say, I love this mod.
Not only does it save me time choosing other mods, but it places them into groups and adds other features. I think that while the fleets may not appear balanced at first, after a while,it is inherently apparent that each faction has weaknesses (i.e. Antediluvians have no shields) and while it takes time to adjust to the change and the fast pace, it isn't really that complicated.

Thanks! Happy to see you're enjoying this collection of mods.

Are you mad?, single figher wing with 6000 DPS (its more then onslaught) 170 speed and total 12k HP with free regeneration on any carrier.
Ever if we take in account 75% drop versus armor, it still 1500 DPS, it will bypass armor of any ship in 2 seconds.

I'm not mad. Are you? You're still getting the numbers wrong. Plus the fighter wings are fairly balanced. If you're having a hard time taking out the fighters, try taking out the carriers so they can't regenerate. Try different tactics.

Your ships have outstanding perfomance compared to vanilla, burndrive allow to come close, hurge amount of DPS allow to deal with enemy.
Only valid strategy is kiting around, there is no chance in close combat and no chance to run away on same class ship.
Frigate kiting confirmed as "cheating" by devs and deal with next version.
Soo your ships can be killed only by "cheating".
No shield can be exploited only by long ranged weapons, there is nothing long ranged to tritachion faction.

If by "kiting around" you mean circling around other ships, then that's not cheating but a valid gameplay strategy. Some ships are more maneuverable than others. In the case of the Ante's, their turning is very slow. So you might want to use this strategy if you can't take them head on. Your conclusion is flawed.

You lore is fine, but read this http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief it explain everything.

Thanks for complimenting me on the written lore. I'm not checking a link before you explain what I'm supposed to be looking at.

I can explain anything in current starfarer setting, lasers, plasma, space zombies, free flying around, but space sonic guns and infinite space hydro abrasive cutting is just unprobable and harm sence of reality.

That's simply not true. A faction that has focussed on adapting to aquatic life and integrating aqua-based tech into how they operate is quite likely to have deviced ways to make sonic guns and aqua lasers work. Especially in a fantasy sci-fi setting. Plus the sonic and aqua tech has sound backing. Check the explanation offered below.

Since when are games supposed to be realistic? The mod is good! It has interesting weapons and ships diffirent from the vanilla ships which makes it fun to play with. This is just my but in my personal opinion if it's fun it shouldnt matter if you throw the sense of realism out of window.

It's a game mate. A game. It doesnt matter.

-Sandemo

Exactly. Glad you're enjoying the mod collection. From what I've seen most tech has a semi-realistic sense of reality, though.

I'm just going to drop my little tid bit in.

The placement of planets and stations should be looked at, early in the game some factons have absurd levels of dominance, and even into late game resupply fleets have a nigh impossible team getting to their destination, EXCEPT for the factions whom have planets on the outer reaches of the map.

Also, your logic behind the Antediluvian weaponry isn't quite on point. Water presents no benefit to laser weaponry, infact in the way you've explained it it seems to make them completely useless.

Also, Sound requires a medium to travel, there is no medium in space for sound to travel through so sonic weaponry makes no sense whatsoever.

Instead of trying to explain it you should probably just say. It's magical! I ain't gotta explain ***!   

A Persephone fleet with maybe two carriers on the fridges of a battle space seem to be capable of infinite regeneration so long as one fighter makes it away, which would be the case because currently you require a dedicated barrage of multiple medium class weapons to kill them. Despite their supposed low armor.

The placement of planets should indeed be looked at. It is possible to set them further apart in the system. That is up to Uomoz, however. He might be willing to change their locations, although he prefers to keep the system as close to vanilla Starsector as possible.

Water does indeed benefit laser weapons. The water is administered at nano levels. Read: smaller than tiny. They are used as lenses, as water has properties that allows light to pass through, reflect and intesify. Thus, at these nano levels, light is being passed through a huge series of tiny lenses that intesify the light beam greatly. Up to a point where it becomes a destructive laser. Fantasy? Yes. Sci-fi? Yes. Possible? Who knows. Semi-realistic? Yes. There is a sound explanation for its existance, after all.

Furthermore, sound does indeed have a medium to travel in space. Molecules. Yes, they exist in space, though sparsely. Enough to carry sound as we know it? No, realistically it does not. However, take into consideration that in Starsector sound does travel through space. Unless you've forgotten about all the explosions and weapons fire you keep hearing in the game? If you do have trouble believing that a pulse of sonic fibrations could travel through space, you can consider the actual projectile to be a metal disc, fired from the drumchamber. There, fixed. Since the sonic fibration would be the initial ignition to fire this projectile. Just like any combustion based weapon that expells a projectile or slug.

Again, if the Persephones pose such a problem for you, maybe you should try and locate the carriers and take them out. Or focuss your weapons and tactics on combatting these small but tough ships.


[edit]
I feel that I must elaborate on the tone I set at the beginning of this post. I've noticed some posts made in poor taste these last couple of days. Critisism is always welcome. Feedback helps mod makers improve their creations. However, phrases like "You're dumb, you did X and Y. But you should've done A and Z. Why are you such an idiot!" ruin the atmosphere and overall friendly feeling of this forum community.

[Sandremo]

Off topic a bit
Realistically speaking (Did i typo that?) isnt for example a single nut or bolt or any small metal object that has been circling around earth's orbit enough to break through a space ship? = hull breach = you're dead. I dont remember where i read such a thing but that's what i remember anyway.

Back on to the topic a little bit

When i first heard about water based weapons i thought that they were literally spraying water into space which would turn into ice and do damage on the enemy which sounded hilarious. XD

-Sandremo

[Erick Doe]

Off topic a bit
Realistically speaking (Did i typo that?) isnt for example a single nut or bolt or any small metal object that has been circling around earth's orbit enough to break through a space ship? = hull breach = you're dead. I dont remember where i read such a thing but that's what i remember anyway.

Back on to the topic a little bit

When i first heard about water based weapons i thought that they were literally spraying water into space which would turn into ice and do damage on the enemy which sounded hilarious. XD

-Sandremo

They're just aquatic lenses set within a laser system. I could've said "a beam of light passing through crystal lenses" and people probably would've an easier time accepting the weapon's concept.

A metal bolt in orbit could pick up a velocity so high that it can just pass through anything.

[Sandremo]

Off topic a bit
Realistically speaking (Did i typo that?) isnt for example a single nut or bolt or any small metal object that has been circling around earth's orbit enough to break through a space ship? = hull breach = you're dead. I dont remember where i read such a thing but that's what i remember anyway.

Back on to the topic a little bit

When i first heard about water based weapons i thought that they were literally spraying water into space which would turn into ice and do damage on the enemy which sounded hilarious. XD

-Sandremo

They're just aquatic lenses set within a laser system. I could've said "a beam of light passing through crystal lenses" and people probably would've an easier time accepting the weapon's concept.

A metal bolt in orbit could pick up a velocity so high that it can just pass through anything.

Even if you would have there would probably have been someone who would have found something unrealistic in it (No offence to anybody!)

Anyway i crossed paths with the "The boomer" boss or something like that. Sounds like something scary with alot of explosives. Anyway what would be a good time to try fighting against bosses? when i have like the max amount of fleet points i can get from skills and a massive fleet? (The reason im thinking that is because the AI really doesnt know how to survive more than 2 minutes. They dont know how to run back to friendlies unless i tell them otherwise. XD)

Or is it just "when i feel like it"?

Oh boy i feel like i'm going to experience many horrible deaths...

-Sandremo

[ValkyriaL]

Why do you guys have to write such massive comments???  buhu.. (T.T)