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[FlashFrozen]

Just as note and to whoever was crazy enough to think of it, the Vice with that hadron will no longer have enough max flux to fire the thing   (cough  sirboomalot)

[ssthehunter]

Holy crap, those unsung classes are powerful, field 3 of them against Lord Uomoz and you win.  no exceptions.

[sirboomalot]

Just as note and to whoever was crazy enough to think of it, the Vice with that hadron will no longer have enough max flux to fire the thing  (cough  sirboomalot)

Arhg, I'm gonna have to fix my variant for that  

Edit: what about the hound with the mass driver, does that still work?

[JWill]

BUG

So I've been trying to get a certain Gedune ship for a while.  But after sitting on their station for ages, only really small fleet types were spawning.  The only ones I saw were Scavengers, Scouts, and Raider.  But in /data/world/factions, there's three bigger fleet types: Liberators, Elites, and Seige Group.

After digging around a bit, I think I found the problem in /data/scripts/world/GeduneSpawnPoint.java:

Code

	@Override
	protected CampaignFleetAPI spawnFleet() {
		float r = (float) Math.random();
		if (       (r -= .5f) < 0) {
			return raidFleet("scout");
		} else if ((r -= .4f) < 0) {
			return raidFleet("longRangeScout");
		} else if ((r -= .3f) < 0) {
			return raidFleet("raiders");
		} else if ((r -= .2f) < 0) {
			return Math.random() > 0.3 ? raidFleet("libers"): defendFleet("libers");
		} else if ((r -= .2f) < 0) {
         return l33tFleet(Math.random() > 0.1 ? raidFleet("elite"): defendFleet("elite"));
		} else {
			return Math.random() > 0.1 ? raidFleet("siege"): defendFleet("siege");
		}
	}

Looks like an oversight when adding new fleet types; the probabilities total more than 100%, so the top several are the only ones that ever get picked.

I think this should fix it; just chose some probabilities that summed to less than 1.0 (and the remaining 0.1 goes to the else for seige fleet type)

Code

	@Override
	protected CampaignFleetAPI spawnFleet() {
		float r = (float) Math.random();
		if (       (r -= .3f) < 0) {
			return raidFleet("scout");
		} else if ((r -= .1f) < 0) {
			return raidFleet("longRangeScout");
		} else if ((r -= .2f) < 0) {
			return raidFleet("raiders");
		} else if ((r -= .2f) < 0) {
			return Math.random() > 0.3 ? raidFleet("libers"): defendFleet("libers");
		} else if ((r -= .1f) < 0) {
         return l33tFleet(Math.random() > 0.1 ? raidFleet("elite"): defendFleet("elite"));
		} else {
			return Math.random() > 0.1 ? raidFleet("siege"): defendFleet("siege");
		}
	}

[Flunky]

A little bit of (possibly repetitive) feedback:

First, the delivery convoys are indeed a little too good, at least for Tritach. By about the third convoy I've got enough tempests to control any non-capital battle (so 2, maybe that's just a tempest issue.)

The 'shark' event (the fellow who warns enemies of independents and miners) blew away my convoy, even though independents don't seem to be angry with me. Does he just target anyone not with the Hegemony?

Balancing is more or less fine (though I've never fired the Hadron), even if not all factions are created equal. While they're not all perfect, they are both enjoyable and varied. I like how different the factions can be to fight.

While Neutrino is a pain one-on-one, their guns pretty much stink and with but a single frigate helping you out it's a nearly surefire, if agonizingly slow due to high armor, victory. Since most of their weapons lack punch you can focus on one ship at a time. Their autocombat victory ratios are indeed too high, but I imagine that's hard to fix.

While the IFed weapons are good, their ships have low OP and tend to use vanilla weaponry in standard loadouts. Can be abused by an engi-specialized player not using vanilla weapons, true, but that's true with any faction.

Antediluvs have solid fighters but everything bigger than one is awfully vulnerable. Guns are short range, allowing one to bombard them from afar.

Blackrock's generally poor shield 'hardness' makes them more vulnerable to a wide variety of approaches. Their weapons are nice and balanced now too, especially after the quill nerf.

And so on. These factions have real character on the battlefield, which in my opinion is one of the higher praises given the current focus of the alpha.

[LazyWizard]

Maybe there could be starting questions to choose if personal convoys or boss fleets appear?

[ianianian]

6k flux to fire a Hadron? It was FINE in the first place.

Is there a way to set specific loot for boss battles? I just beat a second and got again, junk drops. Maybe give them extra xp? Or a rare weapon you can't normally find? Give you a permanent bonus to FP? Or a +1 to a skill? So many cool things could be done

And I will say again, make them unable to retreat!

[sirboomalot]

ianianian, go check your abandoned storage place.

[FlashFrozen]

6k flux to fire a Hadron? It was FINE in the first place.

Is there a way to set specific loot for boss battles? I just beat a second and got again, junk drops. Maybe give them extra xp? Or a rare weapon you can't normally find? Give you a permanent bonus to FP? Or a +1 to a skill? So many cool things could be done

And I will say again, make them unable to retreat!

Just as a point of reference, the vanilla plasma cannon requires 3200 flux to actually fire and deal 750*3 or 2250 damage, or 1.4 flux for 1 point of damage
The Hellbore requires 825 and deals 750 for 1.1 flux for 1 point of damage,

The hadron in it's prenerf state took 2000 to fire and dealt 9750 damage,  0.21 flux per point of damage, it's your opinion to define what's fine or not, but it is certainly a nice ratio of damage for what it costs you.

 

[RawCode]

all this rolls shoud use weighted random, not hurge amount of ifs.

if for any reason you dont want WR - then switch case, current implementation will be source of endless issues.

neutrino and aqvidulian figher wings are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIZbGSXeWWE

[Plasmatic]

I think it's the fact that everything from your station is free of charge that does the most harm..

After a couple convoys I simply bought a couple really cheap freighters, sold every stack of weapon my station had and ended up with money out the wazoo..

I think the frequency needs to be reduced as well as the amount delivered, once you have a big fleet, protecting your supply convoy is not a problem, thus, giving you an endless stream of money..

I think the personal convoy should only be there to be used in emergencies, like when you get completely wiped out, it has a couple frigates, maybe a single destroyer and such for you to use, it shouldn't be able to rebuild your entire fleet for no cost at all..

[RawCode]

what about easy to kill enemy fleets to farm on, why we need to buff every fleet to point of "impossible to kill without cheating or support fleets" and then provide player with support fleets, this just illiogical and only delay player from dealing with theese fleets.

Every faction shoud have fleets similar to pirate buffalo2, slow, unshielded, mostly helpless, alone in most cases.
some bosses that merely hurge amount of buffalo2 (or similar ships) as just for lulz event.

With ability to farm on something ever on starting ship player wont need any assistance.


For balance, OFC tempest will kill hound, no exclusions, but in case of neutrino and aqvidulians, every vanilla ship is hound and every neutrino ship is tempest.

30 radi shield coverage and large profile of neutrino ships cant offset 0.16 shields and instant venting.
3000*4 hp fighters vs similar but 300 hp for vanilla is a bit overkill.

[spiderbait]

I think the personal convoy should only be there to be used in emergencies, like when you get completely wiped out, it has a couple frigates, maybe a single destroyer and such for you to use, it shouldn't be able to rebuild your entire fleet for no cost at all..

I like this idea. Maybe have it so that it only delivers supplies to you unless you ask your faction for more and then you get a single delivery of ships and weapons. The size of the delivery should be defined by how long it has been since you last asked your faction for more. The longer it has been, the more stuff you get! That way you could ask them for support and receive a boost for your fleet, but it might mean that, when you get wiped out, you can't get the reinforcements you so desperately need.

[LazyWizard]

all this rolls shoud use weighted random, not hurge amount of ifs.

if for any reason you dont want WR - then switch case, current implementation will be source of endless issues.

neutrino and aqvidulian figher wings are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIZbGSXeWWE

I'll second using weighted random. It's much easier to read and maintain.

Let's look at an example. Here's the logic most spawn points currently use:

Code

		String type = null;
		float r = (float) Math.random();
		if (r > .8f) {
			type = "scout";
		} else if (r > 0.50f) {
			type = "raiders";
		} else if (r > 0.35f) {
			type = "raiders2";
		} else if (r > 0.25f) {
			type = "miners";
		} else if (r > 0.15f) {
			type = "attackFleet";
		} else {
			type = "securityDetachment";
		}

With this, you can't tell at a quick glance what probability each type has, and if you add a new fleet type you need to carefully adjust each case to keep the same distribution.

Here's an alternate implementation with the same probabilities using LazyLib's weighted random (you will need to import java.util.* and org.lazywizard.lazylib.CollectionUtils):

Code

        Map potentialFleets = new HashMap();
        potentialFleets.put("scout", 2f);
        potentialFleets.put("raiders", 3f);
        potentialFleets.put("raiders2", 1.5f);
        potentialFleets.put("miners", 1f);
        potentialFleets.put("attackFleet", 1f);
        potentialFleets.put("securityDetachment", 1.5f);
        String type = (String) CollectionUtils.weightedRandom(potentialFleets);

Notice with weighted random there's no chance of missing an else block and creating a null pointer exception (a NPE in the spawnFleet() method is by far the most common problem people come to me with), and you can easily tell relative probabilities by looking at the code (a scout fleet is twice as likely as miners, for example). If you ensure your weights add up to 1/10/100/etc, you'll always know the actual probability as well.

[ianianian]

ianianian, go check your abandoned storage place.

I see nothing out of the ordinary..what should be there?