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Author Topic: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice  (Read 1312 times)

ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2020, 12:59:25 PM »

I wrote a guide for this. TL:DR build your ships around shield-busting, anti-fighter, and heavy finisher missile strikes.
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DDwarrirofire

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2020, 01:52:54 PM »

I've never had trouble with remnates but then perhaps my two capital were just well built to fight them.   2 14th legions with appropriate high lvl officers, needlers and hurricanes clean like clock work.
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Aereto

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2020, 02:32:53 PM »

Every ship is better off in player hands. Conquest in my view is a bit of a waste in the players hands as there are much better ships to pilot, thought the Conquest does have the advantage of being available. In any case the Conquest does quite well in AI hand if you configure it right.
A fair point. Despite being in player hands, having the combat skills to amplify ship's effective firepower is also paramount. The Conquest tending to face forward-side typically came from the front energy slot or the large missile slots.
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Plantissue

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2020, 05:06:00 AM »

What's the point of fluxing out whatever these modded ships are, if you can't hurt them after fluxing them out? Going pure kinetics against a Radiant, or any other capital for that matter is bad advice. Remnant fleets have an average amount of armour overall so I don't know why you say they have paper armour, because they do not.

I'd appreciate if you would take a moment to read my messages, as I do attempt to carefully choose my words; at least most of the time.

Any slot used on HE is a slot wasted versus remnant, at the very most energy damage is acceptable. Fighter craft should be either their own sparks, or your source of HE from torpedoes.

1) That's a different post to the one I quoted.
2) That very post has written to "Bring as much kinetic as you can" and your other posts writes to "Bring as much kinetic as you can", which contradicts what you have highlighted. So much for carefully choosing your words...
3) Remnant fleets don't have paper armour.
4) "Any slot used on HE is a slot wasted versus remnant", because then you would be arguing that it is a wasted slot against everything

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bobucles

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2020, 11:36:41 AM »

Let people state their opinions, cellulose. There's plenty of good info in this thread to go around. If it seems lacking, just expand upon it.

Redacted ships have excellent attributes in most areas of combat. However, the first step to defeating them is getting through their THICC shields. Most weapons have a serious disadvantage against Remnant shields, but kinetics have a huge bonus which lets them break even in the flux war. Even after breaking shields their armor defenses are still very respectable, but torpedoes in this version will absolutely shred any level of armor. Bombers are handy for their renewable HE kick.

It kind of goes without saying to bring the best that you have. Officers provide a huge and essential bonus to your ships, so be sure to level them up. D-mod ships will occupy the same field space as a pristine ship, so don't cripple your side too hard. Lower level guns tend to lack on firepower compared to the higher cost ones. Capital ships provide a powerful fleet anchor for everyone to rally around. And most importantly, don't fight more than one fleet at a time! Getting zerged down will ruin your day.
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Thaago

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2020, 11:55:55 AM »

No mocking other user's names please. Disagreements are one thing, insults are another.
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Schwartz

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2020, 06:23:52 AM »

Lots of advice on offense, I'll give some advice for defense.

Use only survivable ships. Every ship should either have a respectable shield tank or phase capability. If you're going down the speed route, that means using (usually) small ships, and these die fast vs. Remnants. They're going to bring a lot of Sparks, which means countering fighters either with your own weapons or with your own fighters. I prefer fighters. Have all ships you field have a max level officer on board. If you're farming red Remnant fleets, you may even see cruisers start to die. My endgame farming fleet consisted of 3 Paragons.

These ships are able to survive yellow Remnant fleets:
Apogee: Best cruiser shield tank and only 18 DP. A little thin on the offense, but can mount Plasma Cannon.
Heron: Respectable shield tank, decent speed. There are better carrier options if you use mods.
Sunder: Great shield tank for its size. Make sure you fit shield mods and use them defensively.
Afflictor: Can distract, can sway difficult battles, but prepared to either babysit or lose these.

Have not tried but probably good:
Eagle, Aurora, Astral

Flagships:
Doom: Fantastic flagship that can wreak havoc and keep pressure off other ships even without shield tank.
Conquest: Works okay, but paper-thin if you ever run into flux trouble. Careful with this one.
Paragon: The be-all of Remnant combat. Shield system means you can hold out forever.

Have not tried but probably good:
Odyssey
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Tackywheat1

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2020, 10:55:57 AM »


This is advice coming from primarily modded SS games, where the remnant fleet compositions aren't so consistently weak. With seeker and SWP ships filling out their roster, the remnant are particularly disgusting combatants - if you can't flux Novas backed by Solars, you'll lose hundreds of DP worth of ships to take them out.

In vanilla it matters a lot less - if you have something that can shield tank or survive armor tanking one radiant, then so long as your fleet composition isn't completely awful it should be a steamroll without AI suicide.

I completely agree. Although I had no problems fluxing out Solars from SWP, the first time I encountered NOVAs...... 5 of them slaughtered half my fleet before I finally killed them. (lost 2 odyssey, 2 legion (XIV), and 3 paragons to those disgustingly strong monsters)


Sunder: Great shield tank for its size. Make sure you fit shield mods and use them defensively.

Have not tried but probably good:
Odyssey

Sunder has bad shields at 1.2 efficiency but so do all destroyers (other than medusa).

Odyssey is a good against remnant (but when is it ever bad?)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 11:06:06 AM by Tackywheat1 »
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2020, 11:19:52 AM »

Use only survivable ships. Every ship should either have a respectable shield tank or phase capability.

I agree every ship should be survivable but that doesn't mean every ship needs to be a tank, or have good shields. I 100% agree you need to have a front line that won't get run over to protect your more vulnerable ships. Paragons are the best but apogees are also high on my list. Ships with very heavy armor can also work very well. The dominator and onslaught can both tank damage for a long time. I think they benefit particularly from having access to missiles in that role. They spend a lot of time on high flux because they have mediocre shields and bad flux stats, but they can still output a lot of damage and tank a lot of damage on high flux because of armor and missiles.

I would also say that speed is a form of survivability. The heron has very average shields, but the shields are strong enough to deal with the ships that are faster than it, and the heron is fast enough to run away from the stuff that can actually hurt it. The conquest is good because it is so maneuverable (by capital ship standards) that allows it avoid damage that it can't handle and deal lots of damage at critical times, but it isn't a front line ship that can stand up to lots of damage like a paragon. I think you need both of those types of ships to be successful.

Sunder: Great shield tank for its size. Make sure you fit shield mods and use them defensively.
Sunder has an absolutely terrible shield (1.2 efficiency, .8-1 is average and the paragon has .6 efficiency). It's a glass cannon. It does put out a ton of damage though. Carrier are also like that in general. They will get run over by remnant ships of the same class, but if you can keep them safe behind your tank frontline, they will kill all the remnant ships. The sunders defense is its offense. The enemy can't hurt you if they're fluxed out (usually). It's definitely not a tank.
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Schwartz

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2020, 01:15:58 PM »

Don't forget flux capacity and flux dissipation for Sunder, which is best-in-size by a large margin. Hullmods and skills and spare OP can turn Sunder into a very survivable platform, not to mention its aggressive weapons layout.

I agree that other ships can work well, but Remnants have nasty alpha strikes, heavy missiles and EMP. I would not be comfortable using a ship with a bad shield that has to expose armor vs. Remnants. It may work most of the time. It may even work well as a flagship, as player is more careful. Remnant ships have reckless AI and 'big badaboom' quick surprise attacks happen frequently whenever a player ship is in trouble or has its guard down.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 01:19:36 PM by Schwartz »
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2020, 01:40:04 PM »

In my experience farming remnants, an officered dominator is noticably better than an officered apogee (assuming they have the right officer skills) but an unofficered apogee is better than an unofficered dominator. The dominator really needs the armor skills to survive and also an aggressive officer to overcome the lack of mobility, but when it has then it will perform very well. Armor skills are the key though, unofficered dominators will die too quickly. Its also worth noting that dominators have access to flak and kinetics making them much more resilient to missiles and also better at dealing with shields.

I have not had good experiences with sunders and dying. They are slow with weak shields and paper thin armor and hull. I always use hardened shields, but the way they they survive is by fluxing out the enemy. When you're getting swarmed by remnants, that's not very viable. Also skills are not an option: there's no way I have a spare officer to put in a destroyer in a late game fight against remnants. In the early game, I do think they're probably the best destroyer to put an officer in though, it's just not going to work out in the late game, so I wouldn't use them after I got a decent number of cruisers.
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Thaago

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2020, 04:19:13 PM »

I've also found that the low tech ships benefit more from officers than high tech ships: a Dominator with max armor skills (and +50% turning from evasive maneuvers, so the heavy armor hullmod is viable) can soak so much more punishment than an unskilled one. For high tech ships I try to go for the full offense boosting set and that can work well, but its just not such a massive difference.
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NephilimNexus

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2020, 04:21:05 PM »

I've found ships with phase skip/teleportation are essential, as many Remnant ships just blink away when they start taking damage.  Being be able to follow them with your own blink-magic to keep the pressure going makes a big difference.
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Aereto

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2020, 04:34:50 PM »

I've found ships with phase skip/teleportation are essential, as many Remnant ships just blink away when they start taking damage.  Being be able to follow them with your own blink-magic to keep the pressure going makes a big difference.
Provided that said ships can endure long enough for the heavy hitters to finally punch them in the face. I pilot Dooms, which I fly directly behind the Radiant capitals to corner them or draw their shields away and get backblasted by my capitals. Paragon to absorb the damage, Onslaughts for pressure that their burn drive keeps up with their phase skims, and Astral to rain sabot and atropos, while I pilot the Doom and surround it in mines. One Radiant phase skimmed into my mines and got destroyed by them when it tried to pull back. As for the faster skimmers, my Astral's fighters can go after them just fine.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: Anti-Remnant Fleet Advice
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2020, 03:32:53 AM »

Have not tried but probably good:
Eagle, Aurora, Astral

Eagle is not bad, but is not good, actually. Despise it kill a lot, it dies even more often. Hoverer, that only means all you need is a large deck of spare eagles to defeat those AI tincans.

Aurora is not probably, but proven to be effective. Great survivability, that grant ability to withstand radiant`s sustain fire against most of the radiant`s builds. Requires a hight lvl cautious officer, off course. Different weapon loadouts gives a different roles to aurora, and it can handle all of them. Surprisingly good is a beamspam variant, other shiphulls often are not effective against remnant when beamspam, but aurora is. The only thing that makes aurora awful - deployment cost, that is almost as capitals have, but this is fair price as it almost as effective as some capitals.

The same story of deployment cost can be told about paragon. However it can deflect attack of two radiants while yawing under it`s ubershield. Less good in offense, thought.
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