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Author Topic: Fitting High-Tech Ships  (Read 1529 times)

TimeDiver

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2020, 08:30:04 PM »

A note on phase ships: If you can cram in enough flux vents and put in a good officer, it is possible to have your flux dispersion end up higher than your phasing cost, which means that not only can you phase out indefinitely but actually continue to drop flux while phased.  Now fit yourself with some long-range alpha strike type weapons and you've basically got a Romulan warbird, able to appear, unleash a firestorm in a hurry, then fade back out while your weapons recharge and your flux goes back down to almost zero.  In the right hands such a ship is pure terror on the enemy.

Are you sure about this? Being in phase should build up hard flux, and hard flux cannot be vented while phased.
Maybe by taking 3 points in Defensive Systems to allow 10% venting of hard flux while shields are up? Not sure if that bonus applies to being phased, though.

EDIT: Didn't see intrinsic_parity's edit to their post before submitting my own.
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TaLaR

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2020, 08:34:27 PM »

 Nope, infinite phase is impossible. First of all hard flux dissipation skill doesn't even apply to phase ships, they get 4x cloak instead.
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Lucky33

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2020, 09:14:47 PM »

A note on phase ships: If you can cram in enough flux vents and put in a good officer, it is possible to have your flux dispersion end up higher than your phasing cost, which means that not only can you phase out indefinitely but actually continue to drop flux while phased.  Now fit yourself with some long-range alpha strike type weapons and you've basically got a Romulan warbird, able to appear, unleash a firestorm in a hurry, then fade back out while your weapons recharge and your flux goes back down to almost zero.  In the right hands such a ship is pure terror on the enemy.

No, its not possible. Flux vents dont affect flux build-up while in phase.

Defensive Systems 3 affect flux build-up by slowing it down by third due to better time acceleration. However you still cant dissipate it.
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StarScum

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2020, 10:36:21 PM »

I loaded up an Aurora with sabots, torpedoes and missile racks and it fucks. Hard.

I think I've gotten the hang of high tech ships. I think its important to use missiles where you can to conserve flux for better energy weapons and shields.
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FooF

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2020, 05:14:17 PM »

High-tech ships work best with having parity between flux dissipation and expenditure, IMO. Most high tech ships have superior flux capacity and shield efficiency meaning that if you can fire indefinitely without dropping shields, you'll win the flux war. Once a ship is flux capped, you'll start doing damage to armor/hull and they can't fire back. However, the trade-off is that your overall DPS will likely be far below low-tech/midline ships with ballistics. You'll win a sustained fight but sometimes the alpha-strike potential is too much.

That's why high-tech tend to be more maneuverable. You might have to get in closer and stay there but you can engage/disengage at-will.

One of my favorite piloted ships is an Aurora with a ton of Sabots, a Reaper Launcher and Medium Harpoon, a Heavy Blaster and Phase Lance along with a few IR Pulses and Ion Cannon. It's flux neutral even with shields up and it can alpha-strike extremely well with all the missiles. Even when I run out of missiles, it can still duke it out with the remaining energy weapons. This is a non-SO variant so longevity in fights isn't usually an issue but it still hits near 300 speed with Plasma Jets, making it faster than most frigates.
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bobucles

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2020, 06:16:07 AM »

Quote
No, its not possible. Flux vents dont affect flux build-up while in phase.
To expand on this, phase cloaking generates Hard Flux, which blocks venting while the phase cloak is up. It is perfectly possible (and extremely useful) to cool off soft flux during the cloak. In fact, you should only stay uncloaked to exclusively remove hard flux. Try to vent off the hard flux before generating a huge surge of soft flux (E.G. antimatters) and take advantage of the time accelerated soft flux recovery during the cloak. You'll spend less time exposed and vulnerable overall.

Defense systems 3 provides an ability to cool off hard flux at 0.1x your vent rating. Soft flux is always prioritized first, and it'll never surpass hard flux generation, however the reduction in hard flux is very potent. For example, take a Doom with 1000 venting and 500 base cloak upkeep. Defense systems 1 reduces the upkeep by 25%, requiring 375 upkeep (33% longer). Defense systems 3 will allow an additional 1000*0.1 => 100 hard flux deletion, providing 375-100 => 275 upkeep (81% longer!). Not a bad deal at all.

If you're feeling pretty feisty, consider the monitor hull mod which allows 0.5x hard flux recovery. Mod it to a phase ship and watch the world burn.  ;D
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 06:18:58 AM by bobucles »
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Plantissue

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2020, 06:36:38 AM »

Defence System skill 3 is 10% hard flux dissipation while shields are active. Phase ships do not have shields.

The skill is useful due to the phase cloak time acceleration but it doesn't do what you think it does.
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Megas

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2020, 07:18:12 AM »

Defensive Systems 3 for phase ships is generally bad.  With 4x speed, they burn through PPT faster and lose the endurance game faster against enemy phase ships.  The only time it may be useful is Harbinger playership that desperately needs more speed to outmaneuver enemy ships like a phase frigate.

I definitely do not want Defensive Systems 3 on an officer assigned to a Doom.
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TaLaR

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2020, 07:29:10 AM »

Yes, DS3 on phase is a problem vs other phase ships. But I find it still worth using since it makes bypassing shields a lot easier (larger opportunity windows).

PPT spending is not an issue for player piloted ship - either way I kill about 1 thing per 10-20 seconds PPT with AM Afflictor. Doing it faster in global time is only better.
But sure, AI doesn't use PPT efficiently, so for them 4x time is a negative.
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Igncom1

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2020, 09:19:52 AM »

Anyone else find that burst laser PD is overkill most of the time? Basic PD lasers or LR PD usually tends to do the job for me.
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TaLaR

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2020, 09:32:58 AM »

Most player ships can and should go without PD, except token to cover engines from Salamanders, at least until capitals.
BurstPD is good at removing few high value missiles but is easy to overload or spoil with flares.
Without IPDAI any non flak PD is not to be relied on. With IPDAI I'd rather use IR pulse, at least on Conquest or Odyssey.

For AI ships I just put few cheap LRPD/PD lasers - that's as much as makes sense without IPDAI.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 12:10:32 PM by TaLaR »
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Megas

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2020, 09:33:51 AM »

Anyone else find that burst laser PD is overkill most of the time? Basic PD lasers or LR PD usually tends to do the job for me.
Late in the game, I often find basic PD lasers too slow at stopping things, and I want either burst PD or IPDAI IR Pulse Lasers (on things that cannot use flak).  Maybe those with Advanced Countermeasures 3 can get by with weaker beam PD.

I like burst PD against sudden mine spawns from enemy Doom or star fortress.

I prefer burst PD over IPDAI IR pulse lasers.
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Aereto

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2020, 02:49:09 PM »

Most player ships can and should go without PD, except token to cover engines from Salamanders, at least until capitals.
BurstPD is good at removing few high value missiles but is easy to overload or spoil with flares.
Without IPDAI any non flak PD is not to be relied on. With IPDAI I'd rather use IR pulse, at least on Conquest or Odyssey.

For AI ships I just put few cheap LRPD/PD lasers - that's as much as makes sense without IPDAI.
I don't typically use IR pulse since its flux is higher than typical PD equipment of similar size, and I know things can get out of hand fast when bombs and rockets are coming.

Meanwhile against mines, burst PD is very effective so long as they don't get flared, unless IPDAI is installed to deal with that on top of dealing extra damage to missiles and mines.

Defensive Systems 3 for phase ships is generally bad.  With 4x speed, they burn through PPT faster and lose the endurance game faster against enemy phase ships.  The only time it may be useful is Harbinger playership that desperately needs more speed to outmaneuver enemy ships like a phase frigate.

I definitely do not want Defensive Systems 3 on an officer assigned to a Doom.

As I personally use phase ships and let other officers use other ships for frontline combat, I use DS 3 to quicken my movement and weapon fire while phased, especially when I am armed with 2 antimatter salvo pairs, phase lance pair, and Typhoon launchers. I sacrificed PD for maximum flux capacity, and use resistant flux conduits to vent faster than increasing flux vent for the same points while resisting EMP weapons.

Harbingers are pretty effective phase killers due to its system ability to overload a ship. A brief enough time to use fast spike damage weapons before they cloak. It would have a harder time with a Doom since it has more flux capacity and the mines, but everything else is fine.
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Plantissue

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2020, 04:23:29 PM »

Burst PD is useful when you need to kill missiles for vulnerable locations. Like a phase ship, or for protecting the engines of most warships. Burst PD is much more useful to destroy missiles fired by bombers, though you can argue that LR PD has longer range so may kill the bomber beforehand if massed. For example, for the rear arc of a Medusa, you may prefer a single Burst PD Laser over 2 of LR PD or PD Lasers as it's better against missiles and cheaper in OP.

I quite like the idea of IPDAI IR Pulse Lasers; it's just that there aren't many ships where it becomes viable, mostly the Capitals.
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TaLaR

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Re: Fitting High-Tech Ships
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2020, 09:07:31 PM »

Most player ships can and should go without PD, except token to cover engines from Salamanders, at least until capitals.
BurstPD is good at removing few high value missiles but is easy to overload or spoil with flares.
Without IPDAI any non flak PD is not to be relied on. With IPDAI I'd rather use IR pulse, at least on Conquest or Odyssey.

For AI ships I just put few cheap LRPD/PD lasers - that's as much as makes sense without IPDAI.
I don't typically use IR pulse since its flux is higher than typical PD equipment of similar size, and I know things can get out of hand fast when bombs and rockets are coming.

AI can't use flux heavy PD at all - they disable it too early (at about 40-50% flux).
But player can, and flux costs are acceptable because it's dual purpose PD/close combat weapon (and IPDAI IR pulse is the only way to get decent dps from small energy slots). Conquest and Odyssey having more dissipation than they can efficiently spend via larger slots helps this build too.
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