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Author Topic: Hammerhead Balance Theories  (Read 4201 times)

Goumindong

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #90 on: January 19, 2020, 10:51:05 PM »

The hammhead was not an issue when AAF existed but ACs were at previous levels. (I still dont think it is but it definitely was not then).

AAF has existed in this form since .8a. We are on .9. Which i should not have to remind you was a pretty big time difference

For what I can tell, you may not be having issues with piloting an op ship with press-f-to-win system at all. This chages nothing in the facts stated above.

I don’t understand what youre trying to say? I didnt say anything about piloting the hammerhead. I said it wasnt a balance issue.
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Lucky33

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #91 on: January 20, 2020, 02:53:41 AM »

I said:

a) Hammerhead is op. With proofs.
b) Hammerhead is op because AAF is op. WIth proofs.
c) If you dont think that Hammerhead being op is a balance issue thats OK. For you.
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Grievous69

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #92 on: January 20, 2020, 03:34:04 AM »

I said:

a) Hammerhead is op. With proofs.
b) Hammerhead is op because AAF is op. WIth proofs.
c) If you dont think that Hammerhead being op is a balance issue thats OK. For you.
Well pick one, it's either a or b. And I don't recall who started this whole thing but you clearly have an issue with AAF, why is Hammerhead even a subject? It's like giving a gun to a child, suddenly it's dangerous when before it pose no threat to anything. Are you gonna take away the gun or beat up the child? Same thing here, no change to Hammerhead is gonna solve this ''problem''. I mean you can up its DP cost to the point where it won't be good anymore, what's that gonna accomplish...

EDIT: Ok maybe that wasn't the best analogy but I hope you get the point.
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Lucky33

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #93 on: January 20, 2020, 04:09:55 AM »

Its both. They dont contradict.

Hammerhead was mentioned as an example of the powerfull ship what makes basic Falcon feel bland and weak. And this is why Falcon (P) feels overpowered. We are in the hijacked topic.

I cant do anything about it. Im not Alex. And I dont care that much how you would assume from reading all this. You can look up topics that Ive created and this is what I really care about.
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Goumindong

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #94 on: January 20, 2020, 04:36:14 AM »

But the basic falcon is not bland or weak. Its quite good. And the Hammerhead isn't OP. And AAF isn't OP. You didn't "prove" anything. You just stated it and expected people would take what you said as gospel.

Maybe this will make sense. The version of the hammerhead that you say is OP, was not OP in .8. But the hammerhead was not changed between .8 and .9
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Plantissue

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #96 on: January 20, 2020, 06:50:49 AM »

The Falcon does not feel bland and weak.

"Purely objective facts" does not mean an opinion that you feel strongly about.
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Cyber Von Cyberus

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #97 on: January 20, 2020, 08:20:08 AM »

I'll be honest, I've been watching this thread for a while and Lucky's arguments left me very confused.
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Lucky33

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #98 on: January 20, 2020, 08:36:21 AM »

I'll be honest, I've been watching this thread for a while and Lucky's arguments left me very confused.

Do you have troubles with the numbers?
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Cyber Von Cyberus

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #99 on: January 20, 2020, 10:14:24 AM »

Well anyways, is it the Hammerhead (without taking into account AAF) or the AAF itself or the combination of both which you think is unbalanced ?
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bobucles

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #100 on: January 20, 2020, 10:48:14 AM »

It's really the whole package that makes it work. A normal hammerhead using typical guns with AAF is nothing to be really scared of. A normal hammerhead using ACs is also no big deal, it's simply too slow to get up close and walk away unscathed. It NEEDS the safety overrides, it NEEDS the assault chainguns, and it NEEDS the accelerated ammo feeder all working together to really show off. A lot of things are adding together into this. You start with a brawly ship, give it sanic speed, load it up with brawly guns, supercharge those guns, and it all combos into a lethal package. It doesn't work nearly as well if any single piece is missing.

I would like to see a few more hammerheads actually in action though. Just because it's a beast in player hands doesn't mean the AI can make full use of it. The only place I've seem them really shine is against domain drones, at least in vanilla. Using ordinary vanilla settings, I have no problem using 3 SO hammerheads (with officers) to mop up any domain probe fleet without issue. They also work great towards the end of a grueling battle as a high speed cavalry to mop up. Personally I don't use them much in pure line vs line battles.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 10:54:50 AM by bobucles »
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Plantissue

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #101 on: January 20, 2020, 11:32:20 AM »

If you can only use them to mop up a fight, that's hardly a ringing endorsement is it? To only be able to use them when the enemy has already been defeated.
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Lucky33

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #102 on: January 20, 2020, 11:35:19 AM »

Well anyways, is it the Hammerhead (without taking into account AAF) or the AAF itself or the combination of both which you think is unbalanced ?

AAF.
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bobucles

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #103 on: January 20, 2020, 12:20:37 PM »

If you can only use them to mop up a fight, that's hardly a ringing endorsement is it? To only be able to use them when the enemy has already been defeated.
Hey, 2 minutes of PPT can only go so far. It's a hell of a mop up during that time, but destroyers just aren't made to jump into capital slug fests, no matter how good they are. They're certainly not made to deal with wave after wave of reinforcements. Use them for what they're good at, and they're VERY good at shredding stragglers*.

*Lone radiants also count as stragglers

SCC

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Re: Hammerhead Balance Theories
« Reply #104 on: January 20, 2020, 12:28:52 PM »

I would like to see a few more hammerheads actually in action though.
You can use the Fleet Tester mod to arrange whatever fleets you want against one another. So long you don't need to load new variants (which you might want to do, as enemy variants can't be edited in game), you can change playerside loadouts and ships for both sides without rebooting the game.
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