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Author Topic: How do we balance fighter spam?  (Read 8538 times)

Mysterhay

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Re: How do we balance fighter spam?
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2021, 12:41:08 AM »

I mean, fighters are extremely effective in large fleet fights as they can focus fire power better than anything else (as they can pass through targets).

One possible fix - allow point defence like LRPD to pass through friendly ships when targeting fighters. Would mean that at least a fleet ball can focus some comparable damage back on them utilising a similiar mechanic. PD boats with ITU equipped also have a place in the fleet - currently they don’t do enough damage to be on front lines, and have no line of sight anywhere else.
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koprus

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Re: How do we balance fighter spam?
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2021, 02:56:51 AM »

I find fighters, specially bombers extremely satisfying to watch and play with in their current state. Every time i see a post with the word "balance" in it i just facepalm myself.

No-one forces anyone how to play balance-wise in a single-player non-competitive game. You do as you like and be satisfied with. If you find fighter spam offensive no one stops you from not playing with fighter spam. And i never have found myself in a position in game vs the AI where enemy so called "fighter spam" caused me ANY problems. EVER. I can easily destroy the game without even bothering to use carriers.As long as modders keep their fighter/bomber stats reasonable this is the best "balance".

Lore and IRL wise stand-off torpedo/missile bomber ordinance should be devastating vs ships. If they are not there is no place for them in any army. Futuristic or not. Fighter/bombers should not be a commodity to be used as "cannon fodder" just for a few enemy pd to have fun with. They should be a serious battle-ending threat.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 03:25:43 AM by koprus »
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Amoebka

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Re: How do we balance fighter spam?
« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2021, 04:38:09 AM »

It's a matter of opinion then. I don't think leaving blatantly broken strategies in the game is fine simply because "you don't have to use them". What happens when you decide to not use the broken strat and lose a close battle? You think "I would have won if I lamed" and you feel bad. There will always be a dominant strategy, but it should at least not be obvious and preferably it shouldn't be a monofleet.
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sector_terror

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Re: How do we balance fighter spam?
« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2021, 06:36:48 AM »

I agree with Amoebka, saying "you dont have to use them," to excuse pisspoor balancing is a trash argument. I shouldn't have to deny myself an interesting part of the game because I know it breaks another part of it. At that point it might as well be unplayable full of crash bugs for all it's worth. Whether I'm avoiding it because it's broken in the sense it crashes, or it undoes the rest of the game, it's all the same and should be fixed so I can stop avoiding a section of the material. And dont forget, the AI doesnt care to not use it.

And reminder: I'm the guy who says bombers are the main issue. I also do see merit in the argument that's been presented here that the AI aiming at fighters weapons that really have no business doing so, or the AIs inability to trust it's armor at all. Once again I reiterate, "fixing" the problem means nothing right now since a new update is, I would hope at this point, far enough in that too much will change. Instead we should examine the problem and detail what makes people see issues with fighters and use that to find if the new update finds solutions to them or changes the field such they are no longer an issue.

Also Koprus is entirely wrong about the lore. Fighters and bombers were part of the mid-line cruisers school as an offshoot to warships in combined arms fleets. High tech intigrated them together into warships to avoid overdepending on them and leaving a far too vulnerable carrier which has little hope of breaking through an onslaught or the broadside of a conquest. So in lore they weren't strong enough on their own and risked being completely helpless if the front-line warships were ever overwhelmed enough, which left the fleet lacking for a response in that scenario. Thus they became relegated to support and point defense or capitalizing on disabling more powerful ships with ion cannons and the like.
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SonnaBanana

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Re: How do we balance fighter spam?
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2021, 07:37:03 AM »

Thus they became relegated to support and point defense or capitalizing on disabling more powerful ships with ion cannons and the like.
Cobra/Trident/Dagger says hi
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I'm not going to check but you should feel bad :( - Alex

sector_terror

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Re: How do we balance fighter spam?
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2021, 07:57:10 AM »

Thus they became relegated to support and point defense or capitalizing on disabling more powerful ships with ion cannons and the like.
Cobra/Trident/Dagger says hi

Yeah I have no idea how I forgot about those, my point about them being intigrated into faster warships to work alongside them rather than as pure carriers remains. I believe the Astral is midline last I checked.
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SCC

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Re: How do we balance fighter spam?
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2021, 09:26:56 AM »

I don't think there's an in-game description of tech level doctrines. It's all implied by what ships are classified as.
When it comes to carriers, low-tech has 1 dedicated one, 2 combat carriers, Shepherd and Venture (which I would say is a warship with fighters, not a carrier), midline has 2 dedicated carriers and Gemini, while high-tech has 1 dedicated carrier, 1 warship with fighters and Tempest. While midline has the most dedicated carriers, it has the fewest fighters, so I'd say if any tech level is the fighterest, I'd say it's low-tech, with many carriers and many fighters, ironically enough.
Yeah I have no idea how I forgot about those, my point about them being intigrated into faster warships to work alongside them rather than as pure carriers remains. I believe the Astral is midline last I checked.
It's high-tech. The blue paintjob gives it away.

Goumindong

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Re: How do we balance fighter spam?
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2021, 12:25:13 AM »

It's a matter of opinion then. I don't think leaving blatantly broken strategies in the game is fine simply because "you don't have to use them". What happens when you decide to not use the broken strat and lose a close battle? You think "I would have won if I lamed" and you feel bad. There will always be a dominant strategy, but it should at least not be obvious and preferably it shouldn't be a monofleet.


But fighters aren’t blatantly broken.
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