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Author Topic: 600+ Gamma cores later  (Read 2083 times)

Grievous69

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2019, 05:47:16 AM »

Jeez how do some manage to write all the wrong numbers, it's not that hard to look it up instead of pulling numbers out of your ass.
40
25
11 DP in order
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Plantissue

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2019, 05:55:29 AM »

It seems Fleet Points is different than Deployment Points. Kind of confusing in either case. Seems that a fleet full of Brilliants would have a higher DP. Don't really understand why this invisible Fleet Points exists in the first place.
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Grievous69

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2019, 06:43:07 AM »

It seems Fleet Points is different than Deployment Points. Kind of confusing in either case. Seems that a fleet full of Brilliants would have a higher DP. Don't really understand why this invisible Fleet Points exists in the first place.
Not only confusing but downright stupid, how can there be such a small difference between a Fulgent and a Brilliant?
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Lucky33

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2019, 07:43:56 AM »

Jeez how do some manage to write all the wrong numbers, it's not that hard to look it up instead of pulling numbers out of your ass.
40
25
11 DP in order

Read. The. Bloody. Text.

FP.

Fleet.

Points.
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Arcagnello

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2019, 08:24:41 AM »

Radiant is 30 fp.

It's just precious  :-*
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Grievous69

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2019, 09:39:21 AM »

Jeez how do some manage to write all the wrong numbers, it's not that hard to look it up instead of pulling numbers out of your ass.
40
25
11 DP in order

Read. The. Bloody. Text.

FP.

Fleet.

Points.
Dude why even use that to measure anything? It's obviously *** and doesn't appear in-game.
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Locklave

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2019, 10:09:56 AM »

What fleet are you using that can kill the huge ordos but not the station? Also, what is the point of allying with pirates? The remnants will kill any fleets that try to raid you. That seems like the main benefit of settling in an active remnants system to me. I've done it in a medium threat system before, and it worked very well for letting me get my defenses set up slowly without worrying about raids.

3 Legions the special ones you find, full spark wings, 2 Apogee (1 I stared with) 10 Drovers full spark wings, 3 Eagles and basically everything I can get my hands on. Fighters are great at smashing the fleets but terrible at fighting a Ordos station.

Basically send in the carriers first, set a single rally point to the center back (Literally on the line closest as you can to the re-enforcement point) to clump them up. Once the enemy starts pushing past the fighters which weaken and kill the smaller ships, you start sending in the fighting ship as needed to push back and finish off the Battleships/Cruisers. The ships being so far back means an easier retreat if things go wrong and the fighting ships can get in Battleships face ASAP. None of those fighting ships can beat the larger Ordos stuff but they can finish off ones the fighters can't bring down.

Everything about this strategy working depends on being able to retreat and re-enforce fast. Sparks are a 100% requirement for this to work, other fighters can't handle them. So you need to farm them from medium systems long before trying this. If a Ordos battleship breaches the fighter line without a real fighting ship in it's face with more then 25% flux for even 5 seconds your losses will be terrible, a Drover dies in about 2 seconds. The cascade of lost fighters will cause more breaches.

It's all or nothing.

edit 2:

Missed the pirate point. Because the pirates are the best trading partners, they can resupply every shortage if you are on good terms with them. It also means when I wipe out the core and/or it dies I still have a trading partner. Neutral faction is nice but will never help you on the battlefield against the major factions, the Pirates will.

There are other HUGE bonuses people overlook that makes up for the lack of commission. I can sell all Blueprints directly on the black market without paying 30% tariffs losing 150,000 of a 500,000 blueprint and fearing the Pirates gaining access to new ships. I mean the Pirates in my game have Astrals and Paragons lol. If they are my allies I WANT them to have better ships. Hell I gave the Pirates a Pristine Nanoforge, I mean I got 6 just sitting around doing nothing so why not.

Update:

The station has been brought down by 8 allied fleets in a single battle. I have a fully upgraded planet, Starworks(with Pristine Nanoforge) and Military command.

I don't think thats true? Could be wrong, but I've never noticed any scaling.
It felt true, but fighting about 200 fleets total was fatiguing. I didn't see fleets with 3 battleships till many kills in. I know for sure probes defenses get stronger the more you destroy, but for the Ordos my experience is anecdotal as I wasn't recording the fleet details.

If they did get stronger it was 1-2 bigger ships at most. Battleships seemed more common later in. I don't recalls seeing a 4 Battleship fleet, but it's a giant blur at this point.

edit:

Ordos fleets completely ignored Tri-Tachyon and even aided them in combat when cross faction fighting took place. It's on the wiki that they are allies but it was funny to see.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2019, 10:43:02 AM by Locklave »
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Megas

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2019, 11:16:58 AM »

The most Radiants I have seen in a single Ordos fleet is three.  One or two Radiants in a full Ordos are somewhat common.  Three seems rare.  A single Ordos with three Radiants is harder than two full Ordos without any Radiants.
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Locklave

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2019, 12:00:22 PM »

The most Radiants I have seen in a single Ordos fleet is three.  One or two Radiants in a full Ordos are somewhat common.  Three seems rare.  A single Ordos with three Radiants is harder than two full Ordos without any Radiants.

By the end nearly every fleet had 2-3 Radiants. 3 was becoming standard. I was building Paragons to take down the station as I had finally found the Blueprints when the 8 fleets took out the station. I had to solo 7 fleets in a row to create that opening for the AI (unplanned, but certainly a positive result), I dare say my fleet was much smaller at the end of that.

3 of those monster Radiants per fight was gonna kill my fleet from attrition even if I won every battle.

Whenever I left the system for selling gamma cores to Tri-Tachyon because I needed cash when I returned the system would have 8+ Ordos fleets flying around in a deathball. Jump point were being camped. I was concerned I'd lose access to my home system and have to build a solution elsewhere.
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Goumindong

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2019, 01:01:18 PM »

Jeez how do some manage to write all the wrong numbers, it's not that hard to look it up instead of pulling numbers out of your ass.
40
25
11 DP in order

Read. The. Bloody. Text.

FP.

Fleet.

Points.
Dude why even use that to measure anything? It's obviously *** and doesn't appear in-game.

Because the game uses it to measure fleet sizes for creation purposes. 
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Plantissue

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2019, 06:47:44 AM »

It really shouldn't. I don't see why or how using this artificial and hidden "fleet point" system is better than simply using deployment points/maintenance/recover cost. Especially when it seems to overvalue frigates and destroyers and undervalues capital ships. It's a far worse system that wouldn't be so bad if it simply ported the deployment system costs over.
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Arcagnello

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2019, 03:07:54 AM »

I believe it to be the contrary to be honest, especially with the current state of fighters and how things like Integrated Targeting Unit scale with ship size.

Small frigades and destroyers just do not really matter late game and that is mostly because of the 30 ship fleet cap and how most of them either are killed too easily, can only spam missiles in order to be useful or just are not worth their deployment because their combat readiness will start decaying way too early, sometimes even when using hardened subsystems.

Combine low combat times forcing them into CR degradation with the danger of fighting multiple battles one after another and you just don't have enough space in the fleet. This might even warrant its own thread but I have to finish another lengthy one first.



I could really see a new fleet size mechanic actually revolving around Fleet Points instead of unit count. That would solve a lot of balance issues.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 03:14:20 AM by Arcagnello »
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Megas

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2019, 08:51:57 AM »

I could really see a new fleet size mechanic actually revolving around Fleet Points instead of unit count. That would solve a lot of balance issues.
Actually, it would be going back to how things used to be before 0.7a.  However, after skills were introduced around 0.5.4a, you had to get max Fleet Logistics and Leadership to get around 100 FP worth of ships and personnel (crew and marines counted toward the fleet, ships had lower costs).  Unskilled, you had 20 or 25, barely enough for a Conquest with minimum crew.  Even at max points from skills (or 100 before skills were added), that was only enough for two or three capitals or forty frigates.  During 0.6.5a, forty or so frigates were probably the optimal fleet.  Also, combat skills were overpowered, but they had to be for zero Leadership builds to be viable.

Fleet cap enabled player to bring more than a few capitals.  Now, fights are capital spam.  Fights are much bigger now than they were in previous releases.
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Locklave

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2019, 10:01:27 AM »

It's my understanding that the next patch will make smaller ships more viable for late game, it's in a blog for those interested. Stuff like higher base number of captains supports the playstyle better and that is one of the changes.

As for Fleet Points? If DP are a problem then those numbers can change, FP isn't used in game and would really only interest data miners and modders who deal directly with them. The rest of us are in the DP world. I might also suggest a dedicated thread for this as people with valid input might not know these things are being discussed because of the topic.

Although I do feel I should say this is relevant to this topic as well, it explains why the Ordos fleets are spawning the way they are and that they get stronger. I assume the FP system is designed to prevent the AI from spamming all capital ship, I'd bet all the AI fleets use a system like this to avoid that. Dev being creative behind the scenes to make the enemy fleet makeup more diverse.
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Beep Boop

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Re: 600+ Gamma cores later
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2019, 01:41:11 AM »

It seems Fleet Points is different than Deployment Points. Kind of confusing in either case. Seems that a fleet full of Brilliants would have a higher DP. Don't really understand why this invisible Fleet Points exists in the first place.
FP exists to determine a ship's value in autoresolve, I think. This makes it non-player-facing since if a player is looking at the situation, it won't get used.
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