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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Sabot Missiles are Too Strong  (Read 7226 times)

Igncom1

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Re: Sabot Missiles are Too Strong
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2019, 02:38:28 PM »

I also wonder if there is a mod that swatches the HE and KE bonuses across the bored what they might be like. HE damage Gauss cannons and KE damage Hellbores!
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TaLaR

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Re: Sabot Missiles are Too Strong
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2019, 08:14:00 PM »

Would be stupid. Most KE weapons don't have enough weapon per hit to be effective against armor, and ones that do are very flux inefficient (Gauss, HVD). On the other hand KE HIL armed Paragon would just crush any shields with soft flux, like 2x HIL to get the shield + 2x Mauler as also efficient and long ranged anti-shield and 2x TL as anti-armor. Or just 4x KE HIL for 4k shield dps.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 08:53:26 PM by TaLaR »
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Igncom1

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Re: Sabot Missiles are Too Strong
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2019, 03:27:33 AM »

Yeah, not doubting that it would be stupid, but fun also! (And terrifying as the games balance gets put on it's head!)

Not that I understand how armour penetration works, I've been working under the assumption that you just blast armour with HE until it goes away. Hasn't failed me so far!

But if anything that as an example does kinda go to show how much more important KE damage over HE. Armour is never an actual issue because shields mean flux which means fire power. But armour just protects HP, from what I know at least as I don't understand turret HP.

Which seems rather "unbalanced" towards shields and KE weapons. Like the Sabot Missiles and Longbow bombers.
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TaLaR

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Re: Sabot Missiles are Too Strong
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2019, 03:52:09 AM »

Armor can be used offensively to gain flux advantage (raise shield only for HE/big energy hits). But AI is not coded to do so, it uses armor only as last line of defense after shield flux is capped. In fact, against enemies not optimized to spam HE, simply removing shield can be beneficial (install Shield bypass, but leave unused OP to not actually benefit from extra dissipation)
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Igncom1

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Re: Sabot Missiles are Too Strong
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2019, 04:08:21 AM »

Is a shield bypass a mod thing, as I don't recall seeing one.

And yeah, if you know how I play I'm an AI fleet commander kinda guy so I am usually beholden to what the AI wants to do. Often feels like herding cats.

The few times I have found the AI to be properly turning it's shields off to fight is when I took 3 onslaughts to a radiant battleship. Put them on execute and watched as the hounded it across the map, basically ignoring the smaller ships or blowing them out of the way. Fun, but it's sorta like playing with time as shields are inherently regenerative, where as armour most certainly isn't.

Could be cool if an overload disabled your shield for the rest of the battle, but I can't see such a suggestion being all that popular.

Anything less then battleship or heavy cruiser armour just feels too easy to peel off with even HVDs. With sabots being equally as good against mid to low tier armour as well, from my anecdotal experience. Don't get me wrong, I like the sabots as they are, but I guess now I'm mroe complaining about them from the other end where the shield/armour system isn't great enough to resist them. Not to mention the lack of decently ranged point defence weapons. I don't see a machine gun or vulcan being able to intercept any sabot fire. Can a flak do so reliably?
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bobucles

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Re: Sabot Missiles are Too Strong
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2019, 04:15:21 AM »

Most KE weapons are high speed and very difficult to dodge, while HE weapons tend to be slower and chunkier. Doing a full swap of the damage types will at least ruin shield flickering, because you couldn't do anything to quickly block against the high speed weapons. There are tons of torpedo weapons so you'd have a lot more options to overload shields, but they'd all be much easier to dodge. All the anti shield weapons would be easier to dodge. Armor would probably last longer because there's very few kinetic weapons that can tear away huge chunks at once.

Armor isn't very effective in this game because there are so many ways to not care and simply 1-shot your way through armor. Swapping the damage types would remove almost all those options.

Goumindong

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Re: Sabot Missiles are Too Strong
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2019, 11:10:18 AM »

Shield bypass is a mod thing yes.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Sabot Missiles are Too Strong
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2019, 11:37:11 AM »

I think shield bypass is from a mod
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