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[Thaago]

But it does carry it's own weight though. (In my opinion)

It carries fighters/bombers without a penalty along with a medium missile launcher.

It's a damn load better then pirate carriers, but about the same level as d-modded military carriers.

Should you actually pay for one when you can afford not to? Nah. But I won't turn one down when there are only worse alternatives. It's truly better then garbage and to me, for me, that's right where it should be. A privateers choice when true military gear isn't to be found.

I agree with this: The Condor is a useful addition to a fleet and does work in a battle. Just because its inferior doesn't make it a waste of space, if nothing else is available.

Condor is Underpowered
Drover is Overpowered

These statements can both be correct, but the middle ground is hard to find. If the Condor had 20 more speed, I don't think it'd suck. Number of OPs isn't always the problem, the primary stats and system for the Condor are the problem. No one would design a carrier like this. Where as the Drover has excellent stats and a great supporting system. Even with less OPs it would still be strong and workable.

I haven't been in the community long but I'd bet the Drover was created by the devs much later then the Condor. The Dev needs to take a long hard look at all the earlier ships and consider if their stats and OPs make sense. Condor being a early game carrier doesn't excuse it being uselessly slow or having systems that don't improve it's performance in a meaningful way. You should certainly want to upgrade to a better ship, you shouldn't feel like it doesn't carry it's own weight.

This is also true. My favorite ship to poke with the current skills is the Enforcer, which out of combat has very high fuel use and in combat is about 80% as strong as a proper destroyer, at best. The in combat ability varies with the balance of skills and hullmods (without any changes to the Enforcer itself, it used to be near best in class...), but the out of combat high fuel useage is just annoying, and is a constant debuff on low tech ships.

[Schwartz]

Drover is a good package with some glaring weaknesses. I don't think it needs to be nerfed. I would rather see fighters in general nerfed a bit.

If you want to arm it, you better stick cheaper fighters on it. It hasn't got rear defense at all. As far as the ship itself goes, it's a glass cannon carrier.

[Igncom1]

If anything, the ship system of the drover nerf's it as I never feel like I should use bombers on it. I feel compelled to use fighters/interceptors.

Compared to the heron which gives a general damage buff, and so is good for anything.

[TaLaR]

It hasn't got rear defense at all.

Which is not an exploitable weakness on a spammable interceptor carrier when fighting AI. Salamanders will be intercepted by fighters, enemies will be too distracted by fighters to get behind Drovers (as long as you deploy enough).

Yes, player piloted AM Afflictor can delete a Drover every few seconds until it runs out of AM ammo/CR. But AI can't properly pilot phase ships, so vulnerability to them is irrelevant in player fleet.

[Megas]

...but I'd bet the Drover was created by the devs much later then the Condor.

Drover is a 0.8a newcomer, just like Mora.

It used to be even stronger with better Reserve Deployment and Helmsmanship 3 (when engaging fighters did not exceed 1% flux).

Today, it is good for Spark spam.

[Thaago]

While we say that the Drover system is BEST used for fighters, it is actually pretty darn good for bombers too. It lets you instantly launch a brand new wave while the previous is returning. And during that time fighter readiness ticks UP instead of down, which is very very strong.

[Megas]

And during that time fighter readiness ticks UP instead of down, which is very very strong.

Do wings only regenerate if they are full?  Reserve Deployment only seems to spit out one bomber (if not full), which is not enough to refill an empty wing, and rate may still tick down.

[Thaago]

I may need to retest to be honest, I thought they made a whole new wing. My bad!

[Megas]

@ Thaago:  I know Reserve Deployment has been nerfed in 0.9a or 0.9.1a, but I am not sure how, and if it is different for bombers or not.  I have not played around with it too much.  From what I vaguely remember, it seems to be weak for bombers, and it did very little to full wings.  It seemed to help non-bombers that were not full.

[Morgan Rue]

Non-bomber wings get full RD benefit. I think it refreshes the wing temporarily and deploys 50% more fighters, rounded up? For bombers I believe it just deploys a new wave?

[Locklave]

But it does carry it's own weight though. (In my opinion)

It carries fighters/bombers without a penalty along with a medium missile launcher.

It's a damn load better then pirate carriers, but about the same level as d-modded military carriers.

Should you actually pay for one when you can afford not to? Nah. But I won't turn one down when there are only worse alternatives. It's truly better then garbage and to me, for me, that's right where it should be. A privateers choice when true military gear isn't to be found.

I think we might agree but my wording used is giving the wrong impression.

If you are early game, the condor is worth taking assuming the d mods aren't crippling. When I say carries it's own weight I mean if you had to drop a ship to get a better ship it'd be at the top of the list. It certainly can fight, it isn't a liability it's just extremely sub optimal.

I can envision an end game fleet with many early game ships, no one would produce a Condor from player shipyards.

For example a Colossus III would be better in nearly all cases then a Condor. It more tanky, faster in combat, uses less supplies (1 more fuel), has flare defensive system, has ground support package which is that is rare (only 2 ships have it) and 300 cargo space. Colossus III is able to fairly effectively fight at close range and has flare defend itself. I get that it is an inferior fighter dispenser, but the condor can't do anything without it's fighters. Carriers are/should be more then fighter dispensers.

Fighters are great, it's why modified flight decks can be added to most of my ships. Even just swarms of Talons. Condor leans on that strength way too much.

edit:

I get that it's good early game, but only because you have nothing. A Hammer/Enforcer/Wolf ect continues to be solid even mid-late game, not so much with Condor.