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Author Topic: [0.6.1a] Kadur Theocracy v1.1.7b (updated 10/3/2013) Uomoz/Exerelin Compatible!  (Read 32130 times)
Morion
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« Reply #180 on: October 08, 2013, 08:46:44 AM »

A little late answer, but better late than never.  Wink
About Phase Shunt: solution can be to force AI to deselect their target before using Phase Shunt, and after using it, lock on same or any ship. AI already often doing so, that’s why sometimes it use Phase Shunt correctly and sometimes just put ship’s stern in the way of missiles. I think it can be crucial for balance. Kadur ship is strong in 1 to 1 combat, even sometimes too strong for such fast ships, but in real fight they often get hits at stern because of poor maneuverability. And Phase Shunt potentially can solve it, and make some Kadur ships overpowered, may be.

About corvettes: Yes, I was talking mostly about Myrmidon and Immortal. I found out that they actually have turrets Shocked even some vanilla fighters have one, I never looked so closely, LoL. I have tested corvettes as escort/support for other ships, mostly frigates and destroyers and there are some results:
Phalanx, as I think, supposed to be antimissile/fighter escort corvette. It’s not very effective at that role. Its two fixed Light Railgun Arrays can present a thread only for lightest fighters like Talon or Wasp, it just too weak. Sling ABM also not very good. It can be very effective as antimissile weapon, but only if missiles are flying directly to ship with those systems, they even can protect ship from swarm of unguided missiles. But, if missiles are flying around ship, Sling ABM have hard time shooting them down. Battlescape life of Phalanx corvettes are longer than of other two, mostly because they keep distance to enemy ships and be able to effectively use shields (their weaponry don’t generate much flux). May be, they even don’t need to increase survivability, but firepower must be increased. I think it need 2 Light Railgun Arrays in turrets and antifighter missiles (vanilla, you need 2-3 of them), or 2 Strike Cannons (perhaps not a good choice, Phalanx with them most likely will try to attack bigger ships and will be destroyed).

Main compline with Myrmidons and Immortals are tracking speed of main gun, it’s too slow, can’t compensate maneuvers of corvette and thus, can’t effectively shoot even at destroyers. I think, concept of Myrmidons and Immortals is long rage support craft. In that situation is better to have main gun in fixed mount and turret with antimissile/fighter weapon (they are vulnerable to heavy fighters now), it can be Light Railgun Array or Strike Cannon, or even some vanilla weapon.

Also, did you think about adding flare/active flare launchers to all corvettes?

About drones: I mean using drones like tiny fighters without crew, deploy and support like fighters, if it possible of course.

More about Buzzard, it have same problem as Myrmidons and Immortals, to slow main gun. May be better to give Buzzard special ability “Augmented Turret System”?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 11:49:38 AM by Morion » Logged
Zaphide
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« Reply #181 on: October 15, 2013, 07:59:10 PM »

Hi Varya,

Really enjoyed playing my recent Exerelin tests as the Qamar Smiley (so much so that I probably spent more time actually playing instead of testing and held off introducing any save-breaking changes until it was over!)

The Falchion was generally my flagship of choice, with the Golem a close second. Really enjoyed the strength/weaknesses of the faction as I think it makes them feel unique to play as. I think their strength/weakness are more noticeable vs. certain factions, but I think this is a good thing and I generally switched my ship load-outs depending on who I was fighting so perhaps that also had something to do with it.

I did find the Buzzard disappointing for it's intended role (as frigate-based PD for bigger ship?) when the AI was controlling it as it's ship system overloads it at the most in-opportune moments (unless perhaps I was using it wrong as it could also be used as fire support for a larger ship). As it is unlikely to be used (much) by a player I would probably suggest changing the ship system to something that the AI uses correctly. I love the idea of the ship so I was hoping for it to be more effective Smiley
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Vayra
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« Reply #182 on: October 16, 2013, 02:50:35 AM »

Hi Varya,

Really enjoyed playing my recent Exerelin tests as the Qamar Smiley (so much so that I probably spent more time actually playing instead of testing and held off introducing any save-breaking changes until it was over!)

The Falchion was generally my flagship of choice, with the Golem a close second. Really enjoyed the strength/weaknesses of the faction as I think it makes them feel unique to play as. I think their strength/weakness are more noticeable vs. certain factions, but I think this is a good thing and I generally switched my ship load-outs depending on who I was fighting so perhaps that also had something to do with it.

I did find the Buzzard disappointing for it's intended role (as frigate-based PD for bigger ship?) when the AI was controlling it as it's ship system overloads it at the most in-opportune moments (unless perhaps I was using it wrong as it could also be used as fire support for a larger ship). As it is unlikely to be used (much) by a player I would probably suggest changing the ship system to something that the AI uses correctly. I love the idea of the ship so I was hoping for it to be more effective Smiley

Hey, thanks. Smiley I've been really swamped with work and other assorted real-life stuff lately, but I still really appreciate the feedback. I also find myself piloting the Falchion and Golem (the Golem is honestly just a bigger Falchion with a little more survivability, OP, and missiles). They're just so all-around useful... Hope that doesn't mean they're overpowered, but I think what with the Enforcer existing in Vanilla it's not super egregious.

You are definitely intended to switch out weapons when fighting different enemies -- a reliance on ballistics and missiles rather than energy weapons helps to enforce that, I think, since it means you're constantly considering the various options: Choosing between kitting out your whole fleet with an abundance of one damage type at the cost of possibly being caught off-guard by a faction you're not prepared to fight (less of a problem in Exerelin, but welp), building every ship as a jack of all trades and wasting flux/OP/slots on less useful weapons against certain factions, or having specialist ships focused on each damage type and only deploying the relevant ones from a larger fleet adds gameplay depth IMO and it's one thing I'm quite proud of with the faction.

The Buzzard was originally intended to be a fire support frigate, sort of like the Elite Brawler from vanilla. This is more evident with the Kadur version -- remember, the Kadur built the hulls and field them as part of a cohesive military structure, the Qamar just maintain legacy ships and construct new ones from pirated blueprints, equipping them with whatever is handy. Hence their PD variant. I did make that before I gave it the weapons drive redirect, though. I think I'll consider giving it its own built-in hullmod and/or changing the ship system, because you bring up some good points.

A little late answer, but better late than never.  Wink
About Phase Shunt: solution can be to force AI to deselect their target before using Phase Shunt, and after using it, lock on same or any ship. AI already often doing so, that’s why sometimes it use Phase Shunt correctly and sometimes just put ship’s stern in the way of missiles. I think it can be crucial for balance. Kadur ship is strong in 1 to 1 combat, even sometimes too strong for such fast ships, but in real fight they often get hits at stern because of poor maneuverability. And Phase Shunt potentially can solve it, and make some Kadur ships overpowered, may be.

About corvettes: Yes, I was talking mostly about Myrmidon and Immortal. I found out that they actually have turrets Shocked even some vanilla fighters have one, I never looked so closely, LoL. I have tested corvettes as escort/support for other ships, mostly frigates and destroyers and there are some results:
Phalanx, as I think, supposed to be antimissile/fighter escort corvette. It’s not very effective at that role. Its two fixed Light Railgun Arrays can present a thread only for lightest fighters like Talon or Wasp, it just too weak. Sling ABM also not very good. It can be very effective as antimissile weapon, but only if missiles are flying directly to ship with those systems, they even can protect ship from swarm of unguided missiles. But, if missiles are flying around ship, Sling ABM have hard time shooting them down. Battlescape life of Phalanx corvettes are longer than of other two, mostly because they keep distance to enemy ships and be able to effectively use shields (their weaponry don’t generate much flux). May be, they even don’t need to increase survivability, but firepower must be increased. I think it need 2 Light Railgun Arrays in turrets and antifighter missiles (vanilla, you need 2-3 of them), or 2 Strike Cannons (perhaps not a good choice, Phalanx with them most likely will try to attack bigger ships and will be destroyed).

Main compline with Myrmidons and Immortals are tracking speed of main gun, it’s too slow, can’t compensate maneuvers of corvette and thus, can’t effectively shoot even at destroyers. I think, concept of Myrmidons and Immortals is long rage support craft. In that situation is better to have main gun in fixed mount and turret with antimissile/fighter weapon (they are vulnerable to heavy fighters now), it can be Light Railgun Array or Strike Cannon, or even some vanilla weapon.

Also, did you think about adding flare/active flare launchers to all corvettes?

About drones: I mean using drones like tiny fighters without crew, deploy and support like fighters, if it possible of course.

More about Buzzard, it have same problem as Myrmidons and Immortals, to slow main gun. May be better to give Buzzard special ability “Augmented Turret System”?

This is all really good feedback too, thank you. I like a lot of the changes you suggested -- all of my available time for modding is being spent tracking down the save file inflation/explosion bug right now, but once I've finally killed that you can expect to see somemost of them implemented along with the graphics cleanup. Grin
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Morion
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« Reply #183 on: October 17, 2013, 08:53:27 AM »

And about this “save bug”. I also got it while plaing Exerelin with SHI, Junk Pirets and Blackrock mods. I had got error when tried to load save. After restarting, game loaded it without problem. After a while game started lagging and going unplaybale and won't load the save after restarting.
May be it helps, I also played Exerelin with Kadur and SHI, Kadur and Blackrock. With Blackrock I got same issue, but and didn't play with Blackrock alone yet.
 I'm running 32bit Java, going to enable 64bit.

Some logs:
24534972 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loaded 523,69 MB of texture data so far
24534973 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Cleaned buffer for texture graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg (using cast)
24534974 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine  - FP1: 0, FP2: 2328, maxFP1: 80, maxFP2: 120
24534991 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading image graphics/backgrounds/background3.jpg into existing tex id 316
24535263 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loaded 535,69 MB of texture data so far
24535264 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Cleaned buffer for texture graphics/backgrounds/background3.jpg (using cast)
24748767 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Saving to ..\\saves/save_Z2_860278598152936105...
24756371 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Finished saving
24787087 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine  - FP1: 48, FP2: 73, maxFP1: 80, maxFP2: 120
25019139 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine  - FP1: 48, FP2: 15, maxFP1: 120, maxFP2: 80
25505510 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Saving to ..\\saves/save_Z2_860278598152936105...
25514339 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Finished saving
25519555 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine  - FP1: 44, FP2: 97, maxFP1: 80, maxFP2: 120
25590890 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading ..\\saves/save_Z2_860278598152936105...
25631409 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Error loading
25631410 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Java heap space
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
   at java.util.Arrays.copyOfRange(Arrays.java:3209)
   at java.lang.String.<init>(String.java:215)
   at java.lang.StringBuffer.toString(StringBuffer.java:585)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.io.path.PathTracker.peekElement(PathTracker.java:133)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.io.path.PathTracker.getPath(PathTracker.java:169)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.ReferenceByXPathUnmarshaller.getReferenceKey(ReferenceByXPathUnmarshaller.java:37)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.convert(AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.java:55)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convertAnother(TreeUnmarshaller.java:66)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.unma rshallField(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:355)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.doUn marshal(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:306)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.unma rshal(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:234)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convert(TreeUnmarshaller.java:72)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.convert(AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.java:65)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convertAnother(TreeUnmarshaller.java:66)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.unma rshallField(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:355)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.doUn marshal(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:306)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.unma rshal(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:234)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convert(TreeUnmarshaller.java:72)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.convert(AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.java:65)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convertAnother(TreeUnmarshaller.java:66)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convertAnother(TreeUnmarshaller.java:50)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.AbstractCollectionConverter.rea dItem(AbstractCollectionConverter.java:71)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter.addCurrentE lementToCollection(CollectionConverter.java:79)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter.populateCol lection(CollectionConverter.java:72)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter.populateCol lection(CollectionConverter.java:66)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter.unmarshal(CollectionConverter.java:61)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convert(TreeUnmarshaller.java:72)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.convert(AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.java:65)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convertAnother(TreeUnmarshaller.java:66)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.unma rshallField(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:355)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.doUn marshal(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:306)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.unma rshal(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:234)

963355 [Thread-9] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore  - Class [com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.combat.SensorArrayEffect] already loaded (perhaps from jar file, or due to a reference from another class), skipping compilation.
963574 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id ms_neriadjets_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963575 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id ms_booster_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963575 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id burstjets_drone_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963575 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id shrimpsensor_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963576 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id ms_swflares_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963576 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id ms_drivecharger_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963576 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id ms_swacs_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963576 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id flarelauncher_fighter_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963577 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id traveldrive_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963577 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id ms_mimirskimmir_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963577 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id inferniuminjector_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963577 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id ms_phaseanchor_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963577 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id ms_phasemine_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963578 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id ms_displacer_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963578 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id skimmer_drone_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963578 [Thread-6] WARN  com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore  - Description with id ms_siegemode_SHIP_SYSTEM not found
963580 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/particlealpha32sq.png] as texture with id [fs.common/graphics/particlealpha32sq.png]
963589 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loaded 229,68 MB of texture data so far
963589 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Cleaned buffer for texture graphics/particlealpha32sq.png (using cast)
963740 [Thread-6] DEBUG com.fs.graphics.TextureLoader  - Loading [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg] as texture with id [graphics/backgrounds/background4.jpg]
966180 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading ..\\saves/save_Z2_860278598152936105...
1013229 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Error loading
1013230 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Java heap space
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
   at java.util.Arrays.copyOf(Arrays.java:2882)
   at java.lang.AbstractStringBuilder.expandCapacity(AbstractStringBuilder.java:100)
   at java.lang.AbstractStringBuilder.append(AbstractStringBuilder.java:390)
   at java.lang.StringBuilder.append(StringBuilder.java:119)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.XStreamException.<init>(XStreamException.java:65)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.ObjectAccessException.<init>(ObjectAccessException.java:22)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.SerializationMethodInvoker.callR eadResolve(SerializationMethodInvoker.java:71)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.unma rshal(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:235)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convert(TreeUnmarshaller.java:72)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.convert(AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.java:65)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convertAnother(TreeUnmarshaller.java:66)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.unma rshallField(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:355)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.doUn marshal(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:306)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.unma rshal(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:234)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convert(TreeUnmarshaller.java:72)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.convert(AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.java:65)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convertAnother(TreeUnmarshaller.java:66)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.unma rshallField(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:355)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.doUn marshal(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:306)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.reflection.AbstractReflectionConverter.unma rshal(AbstractReflectionConverter.java:234)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convert(TreeUnmarshaller.java:72)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.convert(AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.java:65)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convertAnother(TreeUnmarshaller.java:66)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convertAnother(TreeUnmarshaller.java:50)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.AbstractCollectionConverter.rea dItem(AbstractCollectionConverter.java:71)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter.addCurrentE lementToCollection(CollectionConverter.java:79)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter.populateCol lection(CollectionConverter.java:72)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter.populateCol lection(CollectionConverter.java:66)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.converters.collections.CollectionConverter.unmarshal(CollectionConverter.java:61)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convert(TreeUnmarshaller.java:72)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.convert(AbstractReferenceUnmarshaller.java:65)
   at com.thoughtworks.xstream.core.TreeUnmarshaller.convertAnother(TreeUnmarshaller.java:66)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 08:54:59 AM by Morion » Logged
Uomoz
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Posts: 2515


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« Reply #184 on: October 17, 2013, 08:57:53 AM »

Hey Vayra! Any progress on the cleanup? I'm itching to add this hatred-filled bunch into UsS.

EDIT: Implemented, though I spotted some inconsistencies with the variants weapon groups, so the AI kind of sucks with some of them.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 06:06:55 PM by Uomoz » Logged
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