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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Updated the Forum Rules and Guidelines (02/29/20); Blog post: GIF Roundup (04/11/20)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.4.1)  (Read 115125 times)

Cervus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #615 on: June 23, 2020, 10:26:47 AM »

Would it be possible to re-add desert planets in some form, for the sake of the spice harvesting industry? Or possibly make spice harvesting also available to arid worlds?
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #616 on: June 23, 2020, 10:42:21 AM »

Regarding to Arcology buildings:

Aquarius Protocol: Mostly useless. You simply can not ignore defense buildings if you wish to keep your planets safe. And they already gives you stability 10 or so. Even +6 wont change anything. See no reason for player to build that.

Suggestion: give this building additional function to justify using a structure slot. If it able to "suppress crime and extremism" it can remove LP cells, negate pirate activity, reduce(nullify) demand for drugs and organs or even do some of this system-wide. Pick any or add more...

Pheromone Splicer: Didn't test yet, but sounds like really OP thing. Like "terraform into arcology, increase population to 10, terraform to terran (or other type)". If you does not consider nerfing the structure, there are other way: make arcology transformation irreversible. Again, can do some much decreased bonus system-wide.

Smart Grid: Hazard rating is not what player want to change at the cost of slot. Especially if it have upkeep, even if it's small. Again, need some more functional, like +1 to production for all other buildings (with Alpha core).

P.S. Nice job with update!
Would it be possible to re-add desert planets in some form, for the sake of the spice harvesting industry? Or possibly make spice harvesting also available to arid worlds?

IIRC it already available on arid planets. For the great justice! © This is heresy!
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #617 on: June 23, 2020, 11:27:08 AM »

Aquarius Protocol: Mostly useless. You simply can not ignore defense buildings if you wish to keep your planets safe. And they already gives you stability 10 or so. Even +6 wont change anything. See no reason for player to build that.

Suggestion: give this building additional function to justify using a structure slot. If it able to "suppress crime and extremism" it can remove LP cells, negate pirate activity, reduce(nullify) demand for drugs and organs or even do some of this system-wide. Pick any or add more...

Yeah, I think you're right that the stability boost isn't powerful enough. I'm anticipating that the next version of starsector will be released soon and I don't want to code in removing pirate and luddic path activity yet before I see if/how they get changed in the next update.

Pheromone Splicer: Didn't test yet, but sounds like really OP thing. Like "terraform into arcology, increase population to 10, terraform to terran (or other type)". If you does not consider nerfing the structure, there are other way: make arcology transformation irreversible. Again, can do some much decreased bonus system-wide.

In light of the relative weakness of the other two arcology-unique structures, I figured this one needed to make it worth the hassle to create an arcology world. That being said, the pheromone splicer is already significantly less powerful than the vanilla cryorevival facility. Perhaps if/when I buff the other two structures or add new ones, I will reduce the bonus on the pheromone splicer.

Originally I made arcology transformation irreversible but I thought that players who don't read the tool tip might become frustrated later on when they discover they can't change their planet to another type.

Smart Grid: Hazard rating is not what player want to change at the cost of slot. Especially if it have upkeep, even if it's small. Again, need some more functional, like +1 to production for all other buildings (with Alpha core).

I think -50% hazard from a building slot is very powerful. I'm not sure what other mods players might be running that offer something so strong they would pass that up. Hazard reduction will massively increase colony profitability.

+1 production to other buildings is a good idea, although I haven't looked into whether it will be possible to apply that to vanilla industries without conflicting with other mods.


On a related note, once the new version of starsector is released I'm planning to implement a "remnant interest" mechanic similar to the luddic path cells. Hopefully I can use that to balance some of the more powerful buildings/features I've introduced in this mod while also requiring more engagement from the player (ex. with the Kletka simulator).
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #618 on: June 23, 2020, 11:39:45 AM »

One more question: arcology removes farmland. If before terraforming planet has a "farming" industry, would it be removed together with farmland condition? Same thing for terraforming into ice.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #619 on: June 23, 2020, 12:19:39 PM »

One more question: arcology removes farmland. If before terraforming planet has a "farming" industry, would it be removed together with farmland condition? Same thing for terraforming into ice.

The farming industry building is not automatically removed, but it will produce no food.
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #620 on: June 23, 2020, 02:34:33 PM »

Speaking of farmland... aren't arcologies supposed to be self-sustaining in that regard?
Perhaps you could represent that on arcology worlds by making the colony condition also nullify food demand? Food is cheap and easy to come by, so it'd only have a marginal effect in most situations, but it would certainly make them feel more like arcologies.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #621 on: June 23, 2020, 06:37:35 PM »

Speaking of farmland... aren't arcologies supposed to be self-sustaining in that regard?
Perhaps you could represent that on arcology worlds by making the colony condition also nullify food demand? Food is cheap and easy to come by, so it'd only have a marginal effect in most situations, but it would certainly make them feel more like arcologies.

There's an option in the settings file to enable the hydroponics industry, which can then be built on the arcology world to supply food.
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #622 on: June 24, 2020, 02:57:55 AM »

Speaking of farmland... aren't arcologies supposed to be self-sustaining in that regard?
Perhaps you could represent that on arcology worlds by making the colony condition also nullify food demand? Food is cheap and easy to come by, so it'd only have a marginal effect in most situations, but it would certainly make them feel more like arcologies.

There's an option in the settings file to enable the hydroponics industry, which can then be built on the arcology world to supply food.
That sounds like something that should be available by default, then. My impression of arcologies is that they're supposed to be self-sufficient, and while I know that's not fully possible in Starsector's economy, I think that aspect should be at least partially represented in the base mod. Allowing hydroponics is one way to do it, but I'm not sure what to think of arcologies becoming food exporters and I wouldn't like to spend an industry/structure slot on it, so I'm still partial to nullifying food demand instead.
Sorry if I'm making this look like a bigger deal than it is.
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Baleg Qhan

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #623 on: June 24, 2020, 03:36:48 AM »

Thanks for combining your three major mods! I do have a small suggestion, though. It took me a bit to realize they had been combined. I suggest adding Gates to the name. I am not very familiar with this forum. Perhaps you haven't done that because it would require a new thread. Regardless, all of your mods are in my top 10 favorite starsector mods. Thanks so much for your effort!
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #624 on: June 24, 2020, 04:25:10 AM »

Speaking of farmland... aren't arcologies supposed to be self-sustaining in that regard?
Perhaps you could represent that on arcology worlds by making the colony condition also nullify food demand? Food is cheap and easy to come by, so it'd only have a marginal effect in most situations, but it would certainly make them feel more like arcologies.

There's an option in the settings file to enable the hydroponics industry, which can then be built on the arcology world to supply food.
That sounds like something that should be available by default, then. My impression of arcologies is that they're supposed to be self-sufficient, and while I know that's not fully possible in Starsector's economy, I think that aspect should be at least partially represented in the base mod. Allowing hydroponics is one way to do it, but I'm not sure what to think of arcologies becoming food exporters and I wouldn't like to spend an industry/structure slot on it, so I'm still partial to nullifying food demand instead.
Sorry if I'm making this look like a bigger deal than it is.

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think I can remove the food demand without making changes to core starsector files (which would introduce conflicts with other mods). What if I implement an arcology-unique building that can produce food without taking up an industry slot?

Thanks for combining your three major mods! I do have a small suggestion, though. It took me a bit to realize they had been combined. I suggest adding Gates to the name. I am not very familiar with this forum. Perhaps you haven't done that because it would require a new thread. Regardless, all of your mods are in my top 10 favorite starsector mods. Thanks so much for your effort!

I'm glad you're enjoying my mod!

Originally gates were included in the mod name, but I had to reduce the name length so there wouldn't be text formatting issues with it in-game. Also, I think gates are probably one of the more controversial features in this mod, and I don't want players to see the name and be turned off without realizing they can disable gates if they don't want to use them.
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EatLikeAnOuroboros

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #625 on: June 24, 2020, 04:48:42 AM »

This mod is great! One question though, how do I terraform into an Arcology? Is it locked behind a questline?
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #626 on: June 24, 2020, 05:10:24 AM »

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think I can remove the food demand without making changes to core starsector files (which would introduce conflicts with other mods).
Really? Unknown Skies adds two colony conditions that remove drug demand, and if I recall correctly, the "Habitable" condition does the same with a planet's base organics needs, so I had the impression that it was relatively easy. My mistake if it isn't.
What if I implement an arcology-unique building that can produce food without taking up an industry slot?
A food industry that doesn't take an industry slot would be pretty cool and make arcology worlds more distinct, but as someone who plays with Industrial Evolution and other mods that add new structures, I can see myself removing it in favor of farming on a terran world the moment I reach the structure hard cap.
Though, I suppose you can't base your mod development around a problem that doesn't exist in vanilla.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #627 on: June 24, 2020, 08:27:48 AM »

This mod is great! One question though, how do I terraform into an Arcology? Is it locked behind a questline?

Nope. Are you on the latest version of the mod? Can you terraform to other planet types besides arcology?

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think I can remove the food demand without making changes to core starsector files (which would introduce conflicts with other mods).
Really? Unknown Skies adds two colony conditions that remove drug demand, and if I recall correctly, the "Habitable" condition does the same with a planet's base organics needs, so I had the impression that it was relatively easy. My mistake if it isn't.

I'll look into how US handles this to see if it's possible for this mod.

What if I implement an arcology-unique building that can produce food without taking up an industry slot?
A food industry that doesn't take an industry slot would be pretty cool and make arcology worlds more distinct, but as someone who plays with Industrial Evolution and other mods that add new structures, I can see myself removing it in favor of farming on a terran world the moment I reach the structure hard cap.
Though, I suppose you can't base your mod development around a problem that doesn't exist in vanilla.

True enough. Maybe I can tie the food production into another structure so all the building slots don't get consumed so quickly.
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ebolamorph

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #628 on: June 24, 2020, 11:03:31 AM »

Can you add a menu scrollbar to colony structures/industries? I have gotten to were i can make so many industries that i cant see em all. And yes you are not limited in terms of how much you can build AND you get all the bonuses still. plz add the menu scrollbat yto our colonies structure list or make it into a list
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Crimson Sky Gaurdian

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.3.1)
« Reply #629 on: June 24, 2020, 01:09:42 PM »

Can you add a menu scrollbar to colony structures/industries? I have gotten to were i can make so many industries that i cant see em all. And yes you are not limited in terms of how much you can build AND you get all the bonuses still. plz add the menu scrollbat yto our colonies structure list or make it into a list
That's hardcoded.
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