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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.4.6)  (Read 193276 times)

Cyber Von Cyberus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #510 on: May 22, 2020, 03:28:27 AM »

Well thank you for the answer
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #511 on: May 22, 2020, 06:04:16 AM »

Spoilers for the astral gate quest.

Could you like... tone down
Spoiler
odysseus and his ship? For the amount of effort taken to get it, it's both extremely proportional in terms of effort to relative power, and odysseus himself is an insanely powerful officer that is LITERALLY THE MOST POWERFUL OFFICER IN THE ENTIRE GAME. And all it took to get him was get the comms request, press 1 a few times, go to his planet, press 1 some more, salvage a tri-tach invasion fleet, nab an astral, mothball it to the scientist, press 1 quite a lot more, go back to his planet, and then press 1 a few final times.
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And this is all relatively early game.
Spoiler
Alpha Cores are the best admins in the game, so it makes sense for them to be the best officers, too, and Odysseus' ship is held back by being a Conquest, which is fairly weak in AI hands.
Then again, you fight a TT armada for Volturnian lobster seeding, which is a much weaker reward. I suppose Boggled just didn't want to make unlocking the gates too much of a hassle, but the extras do make it a disproportionately rewarding quest. Perhaps there's room for a major Pather/Hegemony bounty hunter fight?
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Regarding the astral gate quest balance:
Spoiler
1. Uhlang is correct that the Conquest is a very weak hull in the hands of the AI, and the unique hullmod isn't enough to make it overpowered. Further, if the ship gets destroyed in battle there's no way to reacquire it, so it's risky to deploy it in a fight you might lose.

2. Outside of battle carriers (which are largely bad in vanilla), there are few hulls where Odysseus can make use of all his abilities. If he crews a combat ship, all the carrier skills will go to waste.

3. Odysseus always has the "steady" personality, which means he can't be used in roles that require a different personality.

That being said, I can understand concerns that the quest can be completed too early in the game, especially if the player has done it before and knows the steps. One possible solution is to prevent Odysseus from contacting the player until they reach a certain level. Any other ideas?
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #512 on: May 22, 2020, 06:14:09 AM »

Lots of spoilers
Quote
Then again, you fight a TT armada for Volturnian lobster seeding,

Is it true? When I did this quest last time (and that was really long time ago) there was a possibility to acquire lobsters without single fight. Just dialogues. And some money. And marines...


And to the Odysseus, well, have anyone ever fight remnants in a hight-danger systems? Radiant officers a usually have almost the same amount of skills, Odysseus does. And the nexus-piloting officers, just like a star fortress (If you install alpha core there) officers are equivalent in power to Odysseus. So, I think "Ody" is lore-friendly as AI-officer. And the ship is a derelict from the past, and even then it was rare and overpowered. Single ship does not do much impact on game, even if it so OP. Especially if it is a Conquest. I vote not to nerf.

Regarding to that... The only really odd thing that quest have - why would Ody pilot Conquest, not Odyssey?

Quote
One possible solution is to prevent Odysseus from contacting the player until they reach a certain level. Any other ideas?

Reasonable. Like lvl 40? Or is it too much?
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #513 on: May 22, 2020, 06:27:50 AM »

why would Ody pilot Conquest, not Odyssey?

Spoiler
I initially wanted him to pilot an Odyssey, but I found that the Odyssey hull is good enough that giving it a powerful unique hullmod would make it very OP, especially in the hands of the player.

I think level 40 is probably a good number. I'll just have to make it clear to the player somehow that they're not high enough level to get the quest.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #514 on: May 22, 2020, 06:44:46 AM »

Fair. Odyssey with "Olympians" hullmod + shield conversion front is basically a "fast Paragon with fighter wings", which is even more scary, as it sounds. Almost as awkward, as "Olympians" Paragon itself.

But there are always a way to give ship a buff, other than "add some better stats via hullmod". Easiest and most obvious - unique built-in (I.e. OP free) weapons or/and fighters. Or replacing a shipsystem with improved one, completely another or even unique. Also, just replacing some specializing mounts with "universal" one, can create a monster-warrior even without direct buffs.

I mean no, I like Ody and his ride as they are now. No more than ideas "just in case of future".
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #515 on: May 22, 2020, 07:02:31 AM »

Lots of spoilers
Quote
Then again, you fight a TT armada for Volturnian lobster seeding,
Is it true? When I did this quest last time (and that was really long time ago) there was a possibility to acquire lobsters without single fight. Just dialogues. And some money. And marines...
[close]
Spoiler
I also remember completing it without a fight at some point in the past, but when I did it last time, the guy I had a deal with came in to kick my ass with a bunch of Paragons and Astrals. Not sure if that's new or if I was just unlucky when picking my responses.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #516 on: May 22, 2020, 07:23:58 AM »

Lots of spoilers
Quote
Then again, you fight a TT armada for Volturnian lobster seeding,
Is it true? When I did this quest last time (and that was really long time ago) there was a possibility to acquire lobsters without single fight. Just dialogues. And some money. And marines...
[close]
Spoiler
I also remember completing it without a fight at some point in the past, but when I did it last time, the guy I had a deal with came in to kick my ass with a bunch of Paragons and Astrals. Not sure if that's new or if I was just unlucky when picking my responses.
[close]


Spoiler
If you smash your TriPad during your conversation with Vega before she tells you the lobster nanoforge is at Ilm, you won't have to fight Simmons/Zhang's fleet. The implication is that he sent you malware on your TriPad to track your progress, and if you don't smash it he hears Vega say where the nanoforge is and ambushes you.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #517 on: May 22, 2020, 07:29:01 AM »

Spoiler
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #518 on: May 22, 2020, 07:56:16 AM »

Spoiler
If you smash your TriPad during your conversation with Vega before she tells you the lobster nanoforge is at Ilm, you won't have to fight Simmons/Zhang's fleet. The implication is that he sent you malware on your TriPad to track your progress, and if you don't smash it he hears Vega say where the nanoforge is and ambushes you.
[close]
Spoiler
Oh yeah, the TT backdoors. I didn't make the connection because I don't really expect questing with consequences from Starsector.
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Manice

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #519 on: May 22, 2020, 10:38:58 AM »

It occurred to me that I never sent my response, oops. I messed around with the location of the astral gate station until it finally ended up in the right space. Sorry for the bother in the previous post, Boggled, turns out I was just doing it wrong.
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eidolad

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #520 on: May 22, 2020, 12:05:49 PM »

omg i just started my first playthrough with this mod...the entire conversations about SPOILERS I'M NOT ALLOWED TO READ means I need to hurry up and get busy in my game instance :)
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #521 on: May 23, 2020, 06:15:30 AM »

How complicate would be to add a deeper US integration? I mean, if US have a "terraformation drone" planet condition, why not it generate some terraforming points? Some other US conditions can be removed via TASC (or added). And those "archipelago world", seems like lobsters could live there too.

That could cause lesser TASC stability in vanilla, tho'.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #522 on: May 23, 2020, 06:54:56 AM »

How complicate would be to add a deeper US integration? I mean, if US have a "terraformation drone" planet condition, why not it generate some terraforming points? Some other US conditions can be removed via TASC (or added). And those "archipelago world", seems like lobsters could live there too.

That could cause lesser TASC stability in vanilla, tho'.


I believe lobsters should already be able to be seeded on archipelago worlds. If you find that it doesn't work, please let me know so I can investigate.

I suppose the terraforming drone could add some terraforming points. I'll implement this in the next patch. I don't want to go too deep on adding content that depends on US because not all players install US. Also, it would be a headache for everyone if an update to US breaks compatibility with features in this mod that depend on it.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #523 on: May 23, 2020, 12:19:38 PM »

Oghh... What did I do wrong?

Spoiler
Penelope's secret quest. I found an Ody, bribe corrupted heg dude, bring data back, Ody is in my fleet. Quest complete. Description say something like: AI core was unable to determine reason. And... that it... nothing happen next.
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So, where did I made a wrong step?
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.1)
« Reply #524 on: May 23, 2020, 12:44:29 PM »

Oghh... What did I do wrong?

Spoiler
Penelope's secret quest. I found an Ody, bribe corrupted heg dude, bring data back, Ody is in my fleet. Quest complete. Description say something like: AI core was unable to determine reason. And... that it... nothing happen next.
[close]

So, where did I made a wrong step?

Spoiler
If you pay the credits bribe rather than letting Luyten examine an Astral, he never gives you the Astral gate blueprints because he couldn't complete them without an AI core draftsman and the experiment results from the Astral.

I suppose it might be too harsh to prevent the player from obtaining the blueprints just for lying to him, but this way it does make the Astral gates less lore-unfriendly because it's clear to the player that the Domain gates can't be reactivated and the Astral gates function differently.
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