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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v9.0.7)  (Read 1070584 times)

Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.3)
« Reply #345 on: April 22, 2020, 03:13:57 AM »

This is a pretty weird question and I'm sorry if its been asked before/has a solution/I've misunderstood something, but is there anyway to have the planets appearance not change when its terraformed? Or can that be made into a config setting somehow?

What is the purpose of terraforming then?
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Agalyon

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.3)
« Reply #346 on: April 22, 2020, 03:48:26 AM »

What is the purpose of terraforming then?

Habitability? I don't think the entire appearance of the planet need change to reflect some temperature changes for example, a solar shield won't make a desert less of a desert at least over night. I think keeping the appearance of a planet would be a nice config option, some of them have pretty unique looks.

[EDIT] Actually I wasn't clear enough here, I dont mean if you fully terraform it step by step just a few changes, but I suppose if you only put up a solar shield like in my example it wouldn't be enough to actually meet the requirement to change appearances so its kind of a moot point. Still think it would be a cool config option.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 04:37:34 AM by HeartofDiscord »
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.3)
« Reply #347 on: April 22, 2020, 05:12:03 AM »

I disabled Domain-era artifacts but they still show up in Procurement missions, newest version for both mod and game on a new save.

That's a bug. I'll look into resolving it. Thanks for letting me know about this!

I'm still getting the bug where domain artifacts are being delivered to the marketplace instead of storage.

As I indicated earlier in this thread, that is the intended behavior and mimics the functionality of vanilla industries.

Question: Is there any way to remove Extreme Weather?  If not that's OK, I just want to make sure that I'm not missing something.

Desert planets have extreme weather after terraforming. If you turn the planet into some other type, it will be removed.

What is the purpose of terraforming then?

Habitability? I don't think the entire appearance of the planet need change to reflect some temperature changes for example, a solar shield won't make a desert less of a desert at least over night. I think keeping the appearance of a planet would be a nice config option, some of them have pretty unique looks.

[EDIT] Actually I wasn't clear enough here, I dont mean if you fully terraform it step by step just a few changes, but I suppose if you only put up a solar shield like in my example it wouldn't be enough to actually meet the requirement to change appearances so its kind of a moot point. Still think it would be a cool config option.

I understand that some planets have a unique appearance that you don't want to lose through terraforming, but I doubt many players would want to enable a feature that causes their water planets to look like deserts and vice versa. Unless I see more players requesting this, I don't think it's worth the development time. Sorry!
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Agalyon

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.3)
« Reply #348 on: April 22, 2020, 05:15:50 AM »

Its all good, Its definitely a tertiary feature.
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #349 on: April 22, 2020, 10:28:32 AM »

So, Boggled, I understand that you're averse to locking certain terraforming projects behind reflectors, but what would you say to adding bonuses or penalties to terraforming difficulty depending on how close the temperature of the base planet is to that of the target planet?
Say, if a player wants to make a frozen world, a planet that's already frozen cold would obviously be their best bet, so why not reward their reasonable decision-making with easier terraformation or penalize them when they're being absurd? For example:
Quote
-2,500 terraforming points required on a planet that already has a frozen planet's "Extreme Cold" condition
-1,000 points for "Cold"
No bonus for no temperature conditions
+1,000 extra points required if the planet has "Hot"
+2,500 extra points for "Extreme Heat"
Or if they're making a jungle/desert(hot) world:
Quote
+1,000 for "Extreme Cold"
No bonus for "Cold"
-1,000 for temperate planets
-2,500 for planets that are already "Hot"
-1,000 for "Extreme Heat"
A tundra world's sweet spot would be "Cold", while terran/water worlds would be easier to create in the temperate regions.

You already have bad atmospheres(or lack of them) increasing the point requirements, and you have a bonus for same-type terraforming. Why not apply the same line of thinking to temperature, too?
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #350 on: April 22, 2020, 10:33:16 AM »

I always think it is weird to construct giant complicated structures like mining stations or astral gate just with resources. Shouldn't it be specialized building equipment used? You never can make a simple chair with boards and nails available but no hummer. Today I noticed potential hummer are already exist in a vanilla!

Spoiler
[close]

That is a construction rig. It is not in game, but exist as an image in starsector-core\graphics\ships. There will not be a big problem to make it a real ship.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #351 on: April 22, 2020, 11:16:53 AM »

So, Boggled, I understand that you're averse to locking certain terraforming projects behind reflectors, but what would you say to adding bonuses or penalties to terraforming difficulty depending on how close the temperature of the base planet is to that of the target planet?
Say, if a player wants to make a frozen world, a planet that's already frozen cold would obviously be their best bet, so why not reward their reasonable decision-making with easier terraformation or penalize them when they're being absurd? For example:
Quote
-2,500 terraforming points required on a planet that already has a frozen planet's "Extreme Cold" condition
-1,000 points for "Cold"
No bonus for no temperature conditions
+1,000 extra points required if the planet has "Hot"
+2,500 extra points for "Extreme Heat"
Or if they're making a jungle/desert(hot) world:
Quote
+1,000 for "Extreme Cold"
No bonus for "Cold"
-1,000 for temperate planets
-2,500 for planets that are already "Hot"
-1,000 for "Extreme Heat"
A tundra world's sweet spot would be "Cold", while terran/water worlds would be easier to create in the temperate regions.

You already have bad atmospheres(or lack of them) increasing the point requirements, and you have a bonus for same-type terraforming. Why not apply the same line of thinking to temperature, too?

My thought was that temperature is largely a function of atmospheric conditions, albedo, amount of light, etc. and the initial temperature (by itself) wouldn't make much of a difference in terms of terraforming difficulty. For example, if a planet is freezing cold, that's because of some combination of the atmosphere being too thin, it receiving too little light, it being too reflective, etc. If those problems are remedied, the temperature changes easily. As usual, if someone more expert on this wants to weigh in I would defer to them.

I always think it is weird to construct giant complicated structures like mining stations or astral gate just with resources. Shouldn't it be specialized building equipment used? You never can make a simple chair with boards and nails available but no hummer. Today I noticed potential hummer are already exist in a vanilla!

Spoiler
[close]

That is a construction rig. It is not in game, but exist as an image in starsector-core\graphics\ships. There will not be a big problem to make it a real ship.

I wasn't aware that sprite existed. This is a very good suggestion and I will implement it!
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #352 on: April 22, 2020, 12:10:28 PM »

the initial temperature (by itself) wouldn't make much of a difference in terms of terraforming difficulty.
I'm by no means an expert myself, but I'm fairly sure it would. Otherwise astronomers wouldn't be so infatuated with exoplanets located in their stars' habitable zones(like Kepler planets or TRAPPIST-1-e/f/g).
And logically thinking, you would have a harder time freezing the molten hellhole that is Venus than, say, Mars.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 12:20:00 PM by Uhlang »
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ATunaCan

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #353 on: April 22, 2020, 12:13:04 PM »

Heya! Just wanna say i'm loving the mod, been using it since the pre v5 rework! (though that boggled my old save)

Two quick question though,
-When removing the stellar mirrors from colony management, the array still exists in the sector without providing any further terraforming benefits (and the planet doesn't turn dark again). Is that intended? What happens if i build the array again?
-I can't seem to get the lobster quest for some reason, using nex and no random coreworlds. Neither orbiting Umbra for months nor going in and out of hyperspace could get the quest to pop up in the bar.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #354 on: April 22, 2020, 05:49:01 PM »

the initial temperature (by itself) wouldn't make much of a difference in terms of terraforming difficulty.
I'm by no means an expert myself, but I'm fairly sure it would. Otherwise astronomers wouldn't be so infatuated with exoplanets located in their stars' habitable zones(like Kepler planets or TRAPPIST-1-e/f/g).
And logically thinking, you would have a harder time freezing the molten hellhole that is Venus than, say, Mars.

Venus would have both toxic and dense atmosphere while Mars might have thin atmosphere - Mars would be significantly cheaper points-wise to terraform into a frozen world than Venus using my mod.

That said, I suppose temperature effects on terraforming is fairly intuitive so I think it would be a reasonable addition. I'll implement it in the next content patch.

Heya! Just wanna say i'm loving the mod, been using it since the pre v5 rework! (though that boggled my old save)

Two quick question though,
-When removing the stellar mirrors from colony management, the array still exists in the sector without providing any further terraforming benefits (and the planet doesn't turn dark again). Is that intended? What happens if i build the array again?
-I can't seem to get the lobster quest for some reason, using nex and no random coreworlds. Neither orbiting Umbra for months nor going in and out of hyperspace could get the quest to pop up in the bar.

The stellar reflectors don't disappear but are purely visual once the structure is removed. If you rebuild the structure, they'll remain in orbit but more won't be added. This is done to explain the fact that "poor light" doesn't return if you scrap the structure.

Do you have the message on the seed lobsters ability that indicates your sector is modified and the quest can't be initiated?
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GorGor

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #355 on: April 22, 2020, 06:03:42 PM »

Hello, Similar problem to a crash brought up earlier:
When I get to the 'conquering the sector' resolution for Odysseus' quest (hand over the astral and say yes to being a figure head) my game crashes when the AI adds their ship to my fleet
java.lang.RuntimeException: Slot id [WS 015] not found on hull [conquest]
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetMemberView.renderWeapons(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetMemberView.renderSingle(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetMemberView.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetView.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleet.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.BaseCampaignEntity.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.graphics.LayeredRenderer.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.BaseLocation.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Declining to conquer the sector seems to work (haven't been able to try and build a gate, but the game doesn't crash on the dialogue resolving)
Otherwise loving the mod
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Mar Sara

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #356 on: April 23, 2020, 12:46:30 AM »

Hey, I had the lobster quest appear in Umbra, but went to check my reputation in case there would be an impact, and it disappeared and won't come back :(
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ATunaCan

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #357 on: April 23, 2020, 05:50:41 AM »


Heya! Just wanna say i'm loving the mod, been using it since the pre v5 rework! (though that boggled my old save)

Two quick question though,
-When removing the stellar mirrors from colony management, the array still exists in the sector without providing any further terraforming benefits (and the planet doesn't turn dark again). Is that intended? What happens if i build the array again?
-I can't seem to get the lobster quest for some reason, using nex and no random coreworlds. Neither orbiting Umbra for months nor going in and out of hyperspace could get the quest to pop up in the bar.

The stellar reflectors don't disappear but are purely visual once the structure is removed. If you rebuild the structure, they'll remain in orbit but more won't be added. This is done to explain the fact that "poor light" doesn't return if you scrap the structure.

Do you have the message on the seed lobsters ability that indicates your sector is modified and the quest can't be initiated?

I'm afraid not. It only says "you lack the techonology necessary to create new variations of the Voluntarian lobsters that can surivive on other planets" in orange text.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #358 on: April 23, 2020, 08:17:21 AM »

Hey, I had the lobster quest appear in Umbra, but went to check my reputation in case there would be an impact, and it disappeared and won't come back :(

If you initiate the bar event with the pirates but leave mid-way through, you will not get a chance to restart the quest. Sorry!

I suppose this is something I could change. If you leave mid-way through the conversation with one of the spacers related to the Red Planet quest, can you come back later to restart it?


Heya! Just wanna say i'm loving the mod, been using it since the pre v5 rework! (though that boggled my old save)

Two quick question though,
-When removing the stellar mirrors from colony management, the array still exists in the sector without providing any further terraforming benefits (and the planet doesn't turn dark again). Is that intended? What happens if i build the array again?
-I can't seem to get the lobster quest for some reason, using nex and no random coreworlds. Neither orbiting Umbra for months nor going in and out of hyperspace could get the quest to pop up in the bar.

The stellar reflectors don't disappear but are purely visual once the structure is removed. If you rebuild the structure, they'll remain in orbit but more won't be added. This is done to explain the fact that "poor light" doesn't return if you scrap the structure.

Do you have the message on the seed lobsters ability that indicates your sector is modified and the quest can't be initiated?

I'm afraid not. It only says "you lack the techonology necessary to create new variations of the Voluntarian lobsters that can surivive on other planets" in orange text.

Unlike Penelope's Secret, the lobster quest relies on Starsector's built-in mechanism for placing quests on a planet. It can be finicky about when the quest is populated - be sure to clear/resolve any other bar quests in Umbra as well as travel to other systems. When I was testing it myself I had to jump to hyperspace and back several times before it would show up. If you start a new game and immediately use console commands to travel to Umbra, does the quest populate?

Unfortunately it's almost impossible for me to identify why the quest wouldn't show up for a given player. There are too many variables to investigate, including other mods the player has installed, possible bugs in the vanilla bar quest population code, and Umbra potentially being conquered/decivilized while the quest was in the bar. Sorry!

Hello, Similar problem to a crash brought up earlier:
When I get to the 'conquering the sector' resolution for Odysseus' quest (hand over the astral and say yes to being a figure head) my game crashes when the AI adds their ship to my fleet
java.lang.RuntimeException: Slot id [WS 015] not found on hull [conquest]
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetMemberView.renderWeapons(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetMemberView.renderSingle(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetMemberView.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetView.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleet.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.BaseCampaignEntity.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.graphics.LayeredRenderer.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.BaseLocation.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.render(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Declining to conquer the sector seems to work (haven't been able to try and build a gate, but the game doesn't crash on the dialogue resolving)
Otherwise loving the mod

This seems to be related to the Conquest from my quest, but I'm not sure why a certain weapon slot on the hull wouldn't exist and throw an exception. Are you using any mods that alter the Conquest hull in any way? If not, I'll take a deeper look into this and see what I can find.
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GorGor

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #359 on: April 23, 2020, 08:31:30 AM »

This seems to be related to the Conquest from my quest, but I'm not sure why a certain weapon slot on the hull wouldn't exist and throw an exception. Are you using any mods that alter the Conquest hull in any way? If not, I'll take a deeper look into this and see what I can find.

Modlist (that mess with weapons and hulls):
"Archean Order"
"Commission Crews"
"Upgraded Rotary Weapons"

If the problem is a missing weapon slot then my bet would be on Archean Order, kind of sad tbh but not the worst problem I guess. Thanks for the help!
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