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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod  (Read 72006 times)

Mayan

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
« Reply #90 on: December 24, 2019, 01:22:13 PM »

Greetings guys

I am Mayan from the old terraforming mod.

I am ashamed and guilty for leaving the mod alone (without any other dev), that was due to changes in my personal life.

I like what i see

* Really nice collaboration here it is great
* The art is beautiful (Miller-Urey Device looks shiny and the structures very cool)
* Forward thinking (that even far from mine to be honest)

Even so i am not playing starsector or any other games currently, i will be here from sometimes to see what ideas and lore there is here.
(And i just really love terraforming fantasy )
To be honest you show here modding skills that i don't have myself, but you can ask me questions, and maybe i will share some ideas. Unfortunately i will not able to contribute allot of effort myself due to stress in my personal life.

Maybe in the next week i could check issue about the ghost planet

I thank the contributors, i am sure Keld_Rhygar also here, to Boggled for taking the lead and credit me
I am honored to know that my code give some inspiration and some of it even still in use
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
« Reply #91 on: December 24, 2019, 04:07:08 PM »

Does terraforming remove existing positive planet traits such as rich minerals?

At one time there were certain situations where this could occur, but due to negative feedback I have eliminated any instance where resources could be reduced.

4) The Ismara's Sling is based on lore from the planet Ismara in the Penelope system so it fits better with the vanilla lore than redirecting asteroids, which is not present in the vanilla game.
But it is. Here's part of the description for Suddene in the Westernesse system.
Quote
The terraforming of Suddene and attendant trains of water-bearing comets were rapidly abandoned post-Collapse as the remaining authorities focused resources on pure survival.
And it's theorized that our own Earth's oceans got a portion of their water from comets beyond the frost line in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, so if you were to implement something like this, it should probably be limited to systems with asteroid belts in a similar position(like Galatia, the asteroid belt there is right next to a cold barren world). It would be realistic, lore-friendly, and wouldn't make Ismara's Sling obsolete. Though, I don't know a bit about modding, so I'm not sure if that's possible.

Alright, you've convinced me. I'm going to start working on an update that will implement terraforming of desert planets using water-ice asteroids/comets. My current plan is to create a new building called "High-bandwidth FTL Infrastructure" or something similar that gives a bonus to accessibility and mining production for station markets only. Then if you have the FTL infrastructure building, you will be able to build another industry that's functionally identical to Ismara's Sling to redirect water-ice asteroids/comets for terraforming purposes. Ideally the asteroid redirection industry would only be buildable on stations beyond the frost line of the star(s) in that system, but this would probably be too confusing/frustrating for players and too difficult to implement.

Please let me know if you have any thoughts regarding this plan!

Greetings guys

I am Mayan from the old terraforming mod.

I am ashamed and guilty for leaving the mod alone (without any other dev), that was due to changes in my personal life.

I like what i see

* Really nice collaboration here it is great
* The art is beautiful (Miller-Urey Device looks shiny and the structures very cool)
* Forward thinking (that even far from mine to be honest)

Even so i am not playing starsector or any other games currently, i will be here from sometimes to see what ideas and lore there is here.
(And i just really love terraforming fantasy )
To be honest you show here modding skills that i don't have myself, but you can ask me questions, and maybe i will share some ideas. Unfortunately i will not able to contribute allot of effort myself due to stress in my personal life.

Maybe in the next week i could check issue about the ghost planet

I thank the contributors, i am sure Keld_Rhygar also here, to Boggled for taking the lead and credit me
I am honored to know that my code give some inspiration and some of it even still in use

Thank you for your appreciation of my work and for your code that I've used!

As far as the "ghost planet" issue goes, Alex has indicated there will be an API update in the next version of Starsector which I'm sure will allow me to resolve this problem completely. Trying to resolve it on the current version of the API is a rabbit hole you don't want to go down!
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
« Reply #92 on: December 25, 2019, 03:30:31 PM »

Alright, you've convinced me. I'm going to start working on an update that will implement terraforming of desert planets using water-ice asteroids/comets. My current plan is to create a new building called "High-bandwidth FTL Infrastructure" or something similar that gives a bonus to accessibility and mining production for station markets only. Then if you have the FTL infrastructure building, you will be able to build another industry that's functionally identical to Ismara's Sling to redirect water-ice asteroids/comets for terraforming purposes. Ideally the asteroid redirection industry would only be buildable on stations beyond the frost line of the star(s) in that system, but this would probably be too confusing/frustrating for players and too difficult to implement.

Please let me know if you have any thoughts regarding this plan!

Sounds good, but if it's impossible to limit it with frost lines, the overall investment for it should be VERY high, or at least high enough to make the sling the better option every time there's a water-ice world in the system.
I'm not sure if that's what you meant when you called it an "industry," but making it take up an industry slot is another good way to make it less appealing than the sling, and considering that the planetary hydration operation would also need functioning ships to hunt down and bring over the asteroids/comets, it should also have a demand for ship hulls, supplies, and crew, if only for realism's sake.
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Razaghal

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
« Reply #93 on: December 25, 2019, 06:50:35 PM »

Hey, I think the idea of using mining stations for terraforming planets it's a good idea.
I was wondering if you will add a structure that allows you to "purify" toxic atmospheres. Probably a building around 750k or 1m credits and 180 days to build. In conjunction with Stellar mirrors or shades, it allows you to terraform a planet. (Probably from Toxic -> a random planet except volcanic, cryo(?) and irradiated. -> Terran(?)).
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
« Reply #94 on: December 26, 2019, 03:59:23 PM »

Hey, I think the idea of using mining stations for terraforming planets it's a good idea.
I was wondering if you will add a structure that allows you to "purify" toxic atmospheres. Probably a building around 750k or 1m credits and 180 days to build. In conjunction with Stellar mirrors or shades, it allows you to terraform a planet. (Probably from Toxic -> a random planet except volcanic, cryo(?) and irradiated. -> Terran(?)).


You can terraform those planets with the Miller-Urey device!

What kind of building could feasibly terraform a toxic atmosphere (ex. Venus atmosphere)? Is there any precedent in the Starsector lore? I know the MUD violates these rules, but I'm trying to keep that as the only exception.
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Serenitis

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
« Reply #95 on: December 31, 2019, 10:51:15 AM »

I don't think there's anything in the current lore of starsector which goes into any amount of detail about toxic worlds other than; they're unpleasant and people generally don't bother with them.

To change the toxic atmosphere you need to know 'how' a particular planet is toxic before you can do anything.
For our purposes that's impossible, so we'd have to abstract it.

Eg: Venus.
Venus is ~90 atmospheres worth of carbon dioxide. You need to get rid of that gas somehow, there's two paths you can follow.

1. Physical.
Scoop up the gas however and dump it somewhere else.
Fling stuff at the planet and let the mass ejections jet parts of the atmosphere into space.
Install a solar shade to reduce the amount of radiation recieved by the planet, which will (eventually) condense the atmosphere and freeze the CO2 into dry ice.
Could also be achieved by floating large reflective surfaces high in the atmosphere.

2. Chemical.
Introduce large quantities of hydrogen to the atmosphere, the resulting reaction would produce carbon (probably as graphite) and water, which could be used to further the terraforming process.
Introduce large quantities of calcium & magnesium to the atmosphere, the resulting reaction would produce calcium & magnesium carbonates. This is a more effective carbon 'sink' than using hydrogen, but does not produce any water.

Posibly all these, with the exception of the 'mass ejections' would be useable as an abstracted means to accomplish this.
Scooping -> Atmospheric Siphon
Shade -> Already exists
Floating ->Atmospheric Reflectors
Chemical -> Atmospheric Condenser

The only thing to be wary of with the last one is that by 'large quantities' we're talking somewhere in the region of 1020kg. That's a lot of mass.
So it might be an idea if there's some manner of industry that will accomplish this that it would require a nanoforge to work at all in human timescales. The quality of which would dictate how fast it works.



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NephilimNexus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
« Reply #96 on: January 01, 2020, 08:20:44 AM »

What kind of building could feasibly terraform a toxic atmosphere (ex. Venus atmosphere)?


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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.3.2)
« Reply #97 on: January 01, 2020, 11:35:49 AM »

What kind of building could feasibly terraform a toxic atmosphere (ex. Venus atmosphere)?

Spoiler
[close]

I don't think there's anything in the current lore of starsector which goes into any amount of detail about toxic worlds other than; they're unpleasant and people generally don't bother with them.

To change the toxic atmosphere you need to know 'how' a particular planet is toxic before you can do anything.
For our purposes that's impossible, so we'd have to abstract it.

Eg: Venus.
Venus is ~90 atmospheres worth of carbon dioxide. You need to get rid of that gas somehow, there's two paths you can follow.

1. Physical.
Scoop up the gas however and dump it somewhere else.
Fling stuff at the planet and let the mass ejections jet parts of the atmosphere into space.
Install a solar shade to reduce the amount of radiation recieved by the planet, which will (eventually) condense the atmosphere and freeze the CO2 into dry ice.
Could also be achieved by floating large reflective surfaces high in the atmosphere.

2. Chemical.
Introduce large quantities of hydrogen to the atmosphere, the resulting reaction would produce carbon (probably as graphite) and water, which could be used to further the terraforming process.
Introduce large quantities of calcium & magnesium to the atmosphere, the resulting reaction would produce calcium & magnesium carbonates. This is a more effective carbon 'sink' than using hydrogen, but does not produce any water.

Posibly all these, with the exception of the 'mass ejections' would be useable as an abstracted means to accomplish this.
Scooping -> Atmospheric Siphon
Shade -> Already exists
Floating ->Atmospheric Reflectors
Chemical -> Atmospheric Condenser

The only thing to be wary of with the last one is that by 'large quantities' we're talking somewhere in the region of 1020kg. That's a lot of mass.
So it might be an idea if there's some manner of industry that will accomplish this that it would require a nanoforge to work at all in human timescales. The quality of which would dictate how fast it works.

Ok, I'm convinced. I'll implement a structure to terraform toxic planets. I'll see what I can do about incorporating the nanoforge idea!
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
« Reply #98 on: January 01, 2020, 05:15:27 PM »

While we're on the topic of expanding the range of terraformable planets, how would Ogygia work?

Despite it being a barren-bombarded world, Eridani-Utopia considered it a secondary target after Ithaca, meaning that terraforming it is definitely lore-friendly. Problem is that the flavor text doesn't go into the methods at all beyond implying that they would've used the same infrastructure they planned to use for Ithaca.
My guess is that they would've used the mass-drivers at Ismara to feed it not just water-ice, but also methane and ammonia to bring the nitrogen needed for an Earth-like atmosphere, but there's gotta be more to this endeavor.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
« Reply #99 on: January 01, 2020, 06:18:42 PM »

While we're on the topic of expanding the range of terraformable planets, how would Ogygia work?

Despite it being a barren-bombarded world, Eridani-Utopia considered it a secondary target after Ithaca, meaning that terraforming it is definitely lore-friendly. Problem is that the flavor text doesn't go into the methods at all beyond implying that they would've used the same infrastructure they planned to use for Ithaca.
My guess is that they would've used the mass-drivers at Ismara to feed it not just water-ice, but also methane and ammonia to bring the nitrogen needed for an Earth-like atmosphere, but there's gotta be more to this endeavor.

I was puzzled by this as well when I was reading the descriptions for the Penelope system.

Ismara's description refers to the "terrestrial planets" closer to the star, so presumably Ismara would be feeding it materials as you suggested. The problem is Ogygia has no atmosphere, so I'm not sure what good throwing water at it would do.
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Serenitis

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
« Reply #100 on: January 02, 2020, 04:17:19 AM »

The phrase "terrestrial planets" generally refers to worlds with a rocky/solid surface, a silicate mantle, and a metallic core.
And specifically in the context of our solar system it also refers to the innermost 4 planets.

You wouldn't be throwing water at Ogygia though. You'd be throwing ice. And that's an important distinction.
By throwing chunks of ice / ice comets at Ogygia (via Ismara's Sling) the resulting impacts would release all kinds of things, including water vapour. The impacts themselves might also liberate any water trapped in the rocks, plus whatever was in the provided 'package'.
Eventually this 'atmosphere' could become thick enough to allow the vapour to condense and form liquids. ('Eventually', as such impacts tend to be somewhat energetic and some fraction of any liberated useful matter could be flung off into space.)

The key thing is getting an atmosphere capable of exerting enough pressure on the water to allow it to exist as a liquid.
Doesn't really matter what that atmosphere is initially, that can be adjusted later. Getting liquid water on the surface is the primary goal.

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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
« Reply #101 on: January 02, 2020, 08:22:31 AM »

Wouldn't the imported atmosphere just get blown away by the solar wind before it has a chance to have any sort of effect?
It would need a magnetic field or shield to keep it safe while the sling/drones do their work. Though, Ogygia is about as big as Ithaca, so assuming they're about the same age, Ogygia's core might still be active enough to produce a magnetic field, just like Ithaca's.
I'm not 100% sure if that's how it works, though. I just heard that Mars' core shut down long before Earth's because it's smaller.
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Valikdu

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
« Reply #102 on: January 02, 2020, 01:56:09 PM »

I ran into the problem of only 12 structures being possible to build on a planet. Is there any way to build more?
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BringerofBabies

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
« Reply #103 on: January 03, 2020, 05:34:47 AM »

I ran into the problem of only 12 structures being possible to build on a planet. Is there any way to build more?

No, that's a hard coded limit in the base game.
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v2.4.0)
« Reply #104 on: January 03, 2020, 08:22:17 AM »

My terraformed Ithaca was attacked so I went to defend it and noticed that it doesn't look so terraformed in the battle.

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I'm guessing it's related to the ghost planet issue, so I doubt there's anything that can be done about it, but I just thought I'd let you know.
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